tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post6339798140831457911..comments2024-03-28T22:56:40.743+08:00Comments on Tan Kin Lian's Blog: Legal fees - action against distributorTan Kin Lianhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00617069056914635271noreply@blogger.comBlogger58125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-44713290194309505312008-10-09T21:00:00.000+08:002008-10-09T21:00:00.000+08:00The act of deceit by Maybank in providing us a fac...The act of deceit by Maybank in providing us a facade leading us to believe that the Minibond Series 5/6 is a secure deposit linked to 6 strong & sound FIs/banks (Lehman Brothers was unmentioned then), in my opinion should be investigated. Moreover, the name in itself, ‘minibond’ has provided a false impression of a safe product, with little risk involved. Frankly, no sound minded person would put their money in jeopardy with a mere 5-6% pa return. <BR/><BR/>In my opinion, this act of deception by Maybank is no different from the 'money-turned apples' cheat cases (occasionally reported in the papers), the outcome of both leading to the lost of hard earned savings and money. I believe that the police would be able to help victims like me to recover our hard-earned money. Thus, I decided that I will be going to the police this Saturday to report my case.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-39633220800716108682008-10-09T19:54:00.000+08:002008-10-09T19:54:00.000+08:00To RJThanks for your comments.We also don't rememb...To RJ<BR/><BR/>Thanks for your comments.<BR/><BR/>We also don't remember seeing the pricing statement, no risk analysis was done and no prospectus was given. As it was the last day of fund launched, we have sign off based on trust to the bank and words of RM that it was a low risk product. We have also emphaised to the RM that our concern is to ensure that our invested principle is return after the year matured! Needless to know that all this is nothing but a CRAP!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-29112675242954789182008-10-09T12:28:00.000+08:002008-10-09T12:28:00.000+08:00To KPI believe we have a strong case, for one, whe...To KP<BR/><BR/>I believe we have a strong case, for one, when I bought the DBS High Hote 5, at the point of sale, my RM did not show me the pricing statement, she verbally intraoduced & explained the note to me, but failed to mention the critical risk factors such as "first to default", "credit event" etc. I received my pricing statement from the post after I have commited my investment.<BR/><BR/>Even you were shown the pricing statement, you would not hvae sufficient time to digest this paper, as it is so technical, the RM would act as the adviser, the presentor of this product, she must not mis-present or mislead the investors, after all, we were not given the paper in advance for thorough study before we made our independent decision, RM's verbal words have greatly influenced our decision making, because, the RM's face-to-face explaination has somewhat redauced our need to study the paper. <BR/><BR/>It is the bank or RM's duty to highlight the risk factaors, failing whcih, they are failing theire faduciary duties.<BR/><BR/>RJAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-10783544065076310842008-10-09T11:38:00.000+08:002008-10-09T11:38:00.000+08:00Yes. Go for it. Sue the FIs for hoodwinking their ...Yes. Go for it. Sue the FIs for hoodwinking their FAs and sold high risk products to low risk customers. Make a big din out of it and tell SINGAPOREANs these FIs are not trusted and boycott their products. Don't fall into their sweet talking gap again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-84140888504538015932008-10-09T10:22:00.000+08:002008-10-09T10:22:00.000+08:00If a fair resolution cannot be reached, I support ...If a fair resolution cannot be reached, I support legal lawsuit. I am really upset about how they had misrepresented the minibonds but are not taking responsibility for it now. If we cannot get our money back then we go after their reputationAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-63191997390493806002008-10-09T10:15:00.000+08:002008-10-09T10:15:00.000+08:00I suggest paying a percentage of the compensation ...I suggest paying a percentage of the compensation to the law firm instead of a fixed sum. Maybe 5%. For me, that would total up to be also around $1000 if we do get full compensation. But if the case doesn't win, there's really no point in paying for no results. Fixed sum payment I also don't mind, I just don't want to pay for no results.<BR/><BR/>These FI are just waiting to be sued. Who thinks that the FI will do something right for their customers? Who here thinks they have integrity? <BR/><BR/>If I'm an executive in the FI, I probably will wait until the lawsuit before I act. And that's me thinking in their (stinking) shoes.Parkahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17581208018640652394noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-3905373323407295662008-10-09T08:43:00.000+08:002008-10-09T08:43:00.000+08:00Dear JK (10.10pm),First, I think you have given an...Dear JK (10.10pm),<BR/>First, I think you have given an incorrect link to Dr Money's comments. Second, even Dr Money's article reproduced below did not talk about the risk posed by the underlying securities:<BR/><BR/>"The Bold Claim: "Total returns over 5 3/4 years of over 28 %." (Source: Ads and product brochure.)<BR/><BR/> <BR/><BR/>The Facts: (i) Returns are 4.88 % per year x 5.75 years = 28.07 %. These are the maximum returns. There is no capital protection. Default risk, however, is very low since the product is linked to the credit rating of six very large and creditworthy companies. Sales staff focus on the low default risk and make no mention of a second risk which is much higher: Interest rate risk. <BR/><BR/>(ii) If interest rates fall, the issuer has the right to call (buy back) the mini bonds after one year. In this case, you would receive your principal plus a bonus. The problem is if interest rates have dropped, you would be limited to reinvesting your proceeds at the prevailing (lower) interest rate. <BR/><BR/>(iii) For the rare customer who brings up this point, the sales staff counter it by saying that for recent offerings of similar products in Hong Kong, the bonds were not called. Of course, the HK dollar is pegged to the US dollar and US interest rates have been rising for the past 2 years. The interest rate environment is about to change. (In August 2006, the US Central Bank (the US Federal Reserve Bank) finally paused after a 2-year series of interest rate increases.) <BR/><BR/>(iv) The mini bonds' lock-in period is 5 3/4 years. You will lose if interest rates rise during this period. Should you wish to sell the bonds to take advantage of higher rates, you would have to sell them back to the issuer (since the mini bonds are not traded). The issuer would probably buy them back at less than par value. It means you would suffer a loss of principal."<BR/><BR/>Source: http://www.askdrmoney.com/Analysis_Structured_Bank_Products.htm<BR/><BR/>Many people including me thought, to quote Dr Money, "Default risk, however, is very low since the product is linked to the credit rating of six very large and creditworthy companies." No one realised that we would lose all or a substantial portion of the capital even if there was no default, like in the present situation. The sales pitch was focused only on the Reference Entities. It makes me wonder if this is a deliberate attempt to mislead investors.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07479036463688351011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-60550590183597179352008-10-09T07:44:00.000+08:002008-10-09T07:44:00.000+08:00Can the legal fee be a % of what we can recover fr...Can the legal fee be a % of what we can recover from the notes/minibonds? This is to align the interest of the lawyer and ours.<BR/><BR/>Jasmin.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-60249917894648658742008-10-09T00:09:00.000+08:002008-10-09T00:09:00.000+08:00I seriously look at those postes that was against ...I seriously look at those postes that was against the lawsuit. Are you really one of those that lose hardearn money with little to spare for the rest of your life? <BR/><BR/>It is not about WINNING anymore, it is our belief that we were mislead for the minibond series. No mention and explantion of CDO, credit swap in the use of the cover page that lure innocent investor in. No explanation of the risk involved except for the bank that they link to where none failed. No mention of lehman bro involvement. No mention of minibond ltd swap with Lehman. Most of us were putting money in for Fixed Deposit yet introduce to such product. <BR/><BR/>If you are from FI, please get out of here. We are just a bunch of hardworking people that can ill afford to lose these saving in one go. <BR/><BR/>I support the lawsuit!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-79878068072945107662008-10-08T23:30:00.000+08:002008-10-08T23:30:00.000+08:00Will certainly join any class action if there are ...Will certainly join any class action if there are sufficient number of investors willing to do so.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-53021679286570245532008-10-08T22:26:00.000+08:002008-10-08T22:26:00.000+08:00I support going ahead. $1,000 is worth paying to g...I support going ahead. $1,000 is worth paying to get justice. Any lawyer would be able to provide advice whether we should go ahead and the risks involved. Many of the banks talk about their corporate social responsibilities. Royal Bank of Scotland RBS, the company that bought ABN AMRO says their corporate responsibility is "To deliver superior sustainable value we run our business with integrity and openness, delivering optimum financial results within clearly defined business principles.". I like to see them live up to their statement.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-7858371370161517922008-10-08T22:10:00.000+08:002008-10-08T22:10:00.000+08:00I believe that it is unlikely investors can win th...I believe that it is unlikely investors can win this case. First, Lehman Brothers was rated A+ by S&P (higher than Malaysia's rating of A-). When the RMs said Minibonds and High Notes were low risk back in 2006 or 2007, they were correct because of LB's high rating. Even Dr. Money said CLS are low risks.<BR/>http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q1.07/6856C375-FE4E-4BC8-B753-B48AF3BD8B30.html<BR/><BR/>Secondly, we had all signed the documents and we can't really blamed the FIs for our ignorance.<BR/><BR/>It may be better for all of us to cut loss and lives move on...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-42707269627768171372008-10-08T21:43:00.000+08:002008-10-08T21:43:00.000+08:00Do we really have a case & how do we define MI...Do we really have a case & how do we define MIS-SELL?? For our DBS High Note, it was indeed spelled in fine print that our recovery on our investments can be zero if the credit events kick in! Not sure whether MiniBond has such print literally?? Though from the start many of us (be it literate or illterate) we were not highlighted / told of this fatal fact and signed based on 100% trust with the bank otherwise for that mere 5% return, none of us will be stupid enough to take the risk! Now we could not smell or touch the $, is all gone! Many had comfort and said that we should take this as a lesson & move on but is indeed an expensive one & i'm sure none of the victim can sallow it!! How many ten years we have and we are not those high flyers who easily earn tens of thousands and recover the $ loss easily. Those are our hard earned $ which saved from years of bonus for our retirement & children's education. Can those authorities and shareholders sitting on the FI have some mercy on people like us!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-41319204840528530102008-10-08T20:53:00.000+08:002008-10-08T20:53:00.000+08:00Lehman executives received US400 million bonuses!h...Lehman executives received US400 million bonuses!<BR/><BR/>http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/sub/news/story/0,4574,300240,00.html?<BR/><BR/>WTF, I thought LB is already bankcrupt! These people who caused many of us suffered with loss of our investment have the guts to receive FAT bonuses. We got to sue them!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-19487247432193512172008-10-08T17:10:00.000+08:002008-10-08T17:10:00.000+08:00$1,000 is a small percentage considering what my m...$1,000 is a small percentage considering what my mum and I have in minibonds. I have no issue coming up with this amount. <BR/><BR/>But having said that, I also hear the reservations put forward by the others earlier. <BR/><BR/>I am no legal expert but will put my trust in Mt Tan's judgement on whether we should all go ahead.<BR/><BR/>I am with the majority.<BR/><BR/>KSHAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-48395542727669922352008-10-08T15:53:00.000+08:002008-10-08T15:53:00.000+08:00If legal action is too costly, what about "fi...If legal action is too costly, what about "fist action"?<BR/><BR/>Home > Breaking News > Asia > Story <BR/> Oct 8, 2008 <BR/>HK investors protest mis-selling <BR/><BR/>HONG KONG - FURIOUS investors clashed with police outside Bank of China's Hong Kong headquarters on Wednesday and demanded the repayment of investments linked to failed US bank Lehman Brothers. <BR/>Scuffles erupted outside the Bank of China building, as protesters tried to push through the police's barricade, an AFP photographer at the scene said. <BR/><BR/>Hundreds of protestors also swarmed other major banks and the city's legislature and demanded help from lawmakers to recoup their money. <BR/><BR/>The protestors, who complain that the banks which sold them the so-called 'mini-bonds' had not fully explained the risks involved, held placards and shouted slogans to demand a full refund of their investments. <BR/><BR/>Lawmakers, grabbed by protesters as they were on their way to the first session of the new legislature, promised to do all they could to pressure the government to take more aggressive action against the banks. <BR/><BR/>Wong Kin-ming, a retired hawker who had put his entire savings of 2.52 million Hong Kong dollars (S$469,000) into the bonds, said his financial advisor at one major bank told him there was no risk in the investment. <BR/><BR/>'He told me I would not lose my principal no matter what happened. Tell me what that is if it is not deception?' Mr Wong said. <BR/><BR/>The 53-year-old said he had had trouble sleeping for three weeks. 'I took three sleeping pills yesterday night. I will need a psychiatrist soon.' <BR/><BR/>The protestors gathered initially at the legislature on Wednesday morning, before they divided themselves into smaller groups and marched towards the headquarters of their own banks and the Hong Kong Monetary Authority. <BR/><BR/>Political parties said they would meet with some of the banks on Wednesday afternoon to discuss plans to resolve the crisis. <BR/><BR/>The government proposed on Monday that the banks buy back the products at their estimated value from investors, who bought an estimated 12.7 billion dollars (S$2.39 billion) of the products. <BR/><BR/>But the proposal failed to pacify bond holders, who said the market value of the products is now much lower than their purchasing price. <BR/><BR/>Lehman Brothers, one of Wall Street's most established banks, collapsed last month, sparking turmoil on financial markets across the world. -- AFPAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-80177726766212121992008-10-08T14:03:00.000+08:002008-10-08T14:03:00.000+08:00I’m surely support the class action sues and legal...I’m surely support the class action sues and legal cost, and more importantly our case hear on the OPEN court. The FIs biggest assets probable their reputation and the trust by their clients, without that their business just not valid anymore.<BR/><BR/>Mr. Mui, a victim of minibond.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-90763302167496836682008-10-08T12:15:00.000+08:002008-10-08T12:15:00.000+08:00Yes, sue the distributor firms. $1,000 is nothing....Yes, sue the distributor firms. $1,000 is nothing. even $5,000 is nothing compared with how much we have lost.<BR/><BR/>We want a full refund of our money. We will pay up to 10 grand to get it done. Mr. Tan, you have my support to sue the FIs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-56789587244702902122008-10-08T11:51:00.000+08:002008-10-08T11:51:00.000+08:00A few years ago, I was working in the CBD area and...A few years ago, I was working in the CBD area and was approached by this headhunter who persuaded me to join a fanciful company headed by an Australian talent. As it was a sales manager job, there is just a basic pay of $500 per month. I have to attend their training programme as part of the qualification process to be confirmed in the job. I gave up the present job as it looks very promising in the new job. The headhunter is also part of the management. <BR/>During the first three weeks, I used all my resources and contacts to set up meetings and sales presentations opportunities for the companies. I wrote countless emails to many companies and governmental organisations introducing the training services of the company. <BR/>While going through some files, I began to notice that there were cases of previous managers who received threats of police reports and letters to pay up and compensate the company. I thought nothing of it till that fateful day nearing the completion of a month work there.<BR/>I had just finished meeting a customer when my mobile rang and it was a call from that headhunter who is also a director of the company. She asked me to go back to the office for a meeting. When I reached the service office it was well past office hours and I was told that my services is being terminated. Stunned but conscious of my responsibilites I tried to turn on the computer to see whether I have any unfinished work and correspondence to complete before I leave the company, I was physically obstructed and the computer turned off repeatedly when I tried to switch it back on. There was a scuffle over this and she called the police. I then left the office. I was interrogated by the police, first time in my life, and issued with a letter demanding that I pay $4,000 for attending their training course and my $500 salary was not paid. I then recall that there were other managers who were treated the same before and that this was a scam by foreigners partnering with locals to prey on the local population. <BR/>The moral of the story, it is a well thought out plan and is not incidental. They know the psychology of the people, their fears, their thoughts and their possible actions.<BR/>The common theme here is that foreigners are involved, the RMs are also victims just as the managers who were hired and instructed to liase with the customers. The real culprits are the big shots of these companies. When you start receiving counter-sue letters you will realise how precarious your position is in and what you stand to lose. They have it all worked out. They even use the local enforcement agencies as well as their knowledge of the law to work for them. It is time our government come out to protect the local population instead of importing so many foreign thrash to prey on us.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-38207988365033837032008-10-08T11:32:00.000+08:002008-10-08T11:32:00.000+08:00We, the investors should take legal actions if bot...We, the investors should take legal actions if both MAS & FIs did not response to our complaints, yes, we have signed on the dotted lines, but, we were misled to sign on it, yes, all the midleading evidences are verbal, but, it is RM's words against ours, if we are telling the truth, then judge should be on our side, there are so many of us suffered the same, especially there are so many uncles, aunties, retirees, it is untinkable that all of these would just gang up together to make a false accusation. I think we have a very good chance of winning.<BR/><BR/>rjc<BR/><BR/>RJCrjchenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07052340559947477381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-67726988980120196962008-10-08T11:16:00.000+08:002008-10-08T11:16:00.000+08:00I believe we should take legal actions if both MAS...I believe we should take legal actions if both MAS & FI did not response to our petition. Yes, we did sign on the dotted line, but, we were misled to sign on the dotted line, yes, all the misleading evidences were verbal, but, RM's words against our words, who will the judge believe, if we are telling the truth, justice should be on our side. There are life savings from so many uncles, aunties & retirees, the court will not be so heartless just to dismiss our case.<BR/><BR/>RJCrjchenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07052340559947477381noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-47812555731271782382008-10-08T10:39:00.000+08:002008-10-08T10:39:00.000+08:00In this saga, the FIs has more to lose.They will l...In this saga, the FIs has more to lose.They will lose face and their international reputation and image will be tarnished. They will lose retail investors' trust and confidence once the lawsuit is publicised internationally. The FIs will not like to see this happen.<BR/>So fight all the way to bring them to court. Let the whole world know that we have unscrupulous FIs in Singapore.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-91446595900623279752008-10-08T10:10:00.000+08:002008-10-08T10:10:00.000+08:00Hi Mr Tan, I'm willing to share the legal cost no ...Hi Mr Tan, I'm willing to share the legal cost no matter what is the outcome at the end of the day, because it is a good chance to test the Government and the legal system in Singapore. I strongly believe MiniBond investors are being misled by the “trusted and long established” Finance Company and there is no reason for us to lose the case unless …. Moreover it is a good chance to get publicity and share our painful experience with every Singaporean so they can learn from it as well.<BR/><BR/>Mrs Foo – a MiniBond victimAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-80714261750198858002008-10-08T09:00:00.000+08:002008-10-08T09:00:00.000+08:00To find a legal firm to fight for us is a problem....To find a legal firm to fight for us is a problem. Most of the legal firms refused to take the job because the FIs are their core clients.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-15078158044847582972008-10-08T07:16:00.000+08:002008-10-08T07:16:00.000+08:00Is there a cap/limit (say 1k) that one is willing ...Is there a cap/limit (say 1k) that one is willing to pay for the legal fee? Note that in a legal case, there is no sure win. So paying legal fee does not mean we can get back everything. Even if we get back a fraction, most probably will go to pay legal fee. So going the legal route should be the last option.<BR/><BR/>JasminAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com