tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post2544929499502163151..comments2024-03-28T22:56:40.743+08:00Comments on Tan Kin Lian's Blog: Petition #4 - Review Complaint Handling ProcessTan Kin Lianhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00617069056914635271noreply@blogger.comBlogger114125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-40086483279282036352008-11-03T06:55:00.000+08:002008-11-03T06:55:00.000+08:00Anyone who still think that these so-called produc...Anyone who still think that these so-called products have a role anywhere (including any MAS officials, govt leaders and that NTU prof who wrote that hazy article in Sunday Times two weeks ago) should read some of these articles in reputable vendors:<BR/><BR/>Junk toxic structured products: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=email_en&refer=home&sid=a0jln3.CSS6c<BR/><BR/>The US equivalent of our town councils, MRT operators and so on being similarly deceived like our senior citizens:<BR/>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/02/business/02global.html?em<BR/><BR/>Very curious. Why doesn't our Straits Times reprint these articles, like many others that they do regularly?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-87552212333670741612008-11-02T18:47:00.000+08:002008-11-02T18:47:00.000+08:00If the RMS also feel genuinely being 'cheated' and...If the RMS also feel genuinely being 'cheated' and 'forced' by their banks to sell these structured products without proper training and understanding of the products, all the more they should stand up for Singapore - as witness against mis-selling!!!ph hehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11410901123918685608noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-25316043045312440302008-11-02T16:20:00.000+08:002008-11-02T16:20:00.000+08:00I pity the RMs. Some of them may have bought the p...I pity the RMs. Some of them may have bought the product themselves. And they are now cought in between. They cannot even complain.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-78256006000299052692008-11-02T02:31:00.000+08:002008-11-02T02:31:00.000+08:00RMs are the mouth pieces for the FI management. I ...RMs are the mouth pieces for the FI management. I am not at all surprised that some of them were even told by their management not to reveal the high risks involved or to show or discuss the pricing statement or prospectus with the potential investors 1st before persuading/coercing them into buying the toxic products. <BR/><BR/>If this is not outright misleading and misrepresenting, then what it is?<BR/><BR/>If these products are that great, I would like to know how many FI management and RMs and their families bought these products? Maybe the authority may want to check that. <BR/><BR/>Am sure the results will be a revelation and speak volume.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-50335900453537345082008-11-01T17:00:00.000+08:002008-11-01T17:00:00.000+08:00It's the management that pushed the RMs to sell th...It's the management that pushed the RMs to sell the high profit margin products that increased the FIs profits for their benefits. If cannot meet target, RM has to leave the FI. <BR/><BR/>When problems arise,they blame and suspend the RMs. So sad.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-56896868759766271462008-11-01T13:40:00.001+08:002008-11-01T13:40:00.001+08:00Sonny,being aged 61 and with "O" level standard of...Sonny,<BR/><BR/>being aged 61 and with "O" level standard of education, I've been approached by many Financial Advisers, Relationship Mgr. and prominent Insurance Sales Agent too.<BR/>I was approached with following products:<BR/><BR/>1) ILP (Insurance Linked)<BR/>2) Unit Trusts<BR/>3) Bonds / Minibonds<BR/>4) Structured deposits.<BR/>5) Infracture Funds<BR/>6) Emerging Market Funds<BR/>7) Commodity Funds<BR/>8) Forex and etc.<BR/><BR/>The catch to beware, is the upfront fees and annual commission that varies from 0.5% onwards and the restrictions imposed about penalty charge should you withdraw or default etc.<BR/>Bottomline, is to suck you in as the term "No Free Lunch" is what I learned!<BR/>Last year,I was also given a free so called Financial Health Check by a top Insurance company and I obliged with all the free treats @ a coffee house prior to all the introductions and the tendency to divert my investment portfolios into probably buying or investing in their products!<BR/>Way back in 1996/97 Asian Financial crisis many so called Financial Advisers suddenly disappeared or switched jobs into landBanking Consultant /Oilpods Rep. and many in the MLM line too thus leaving me in a lurch.(lessons learned from there) and today I can truely count my blessings and say NO thanks to all the Financial Products for me and merely say that "once bitten twice shy" <BR/>Conclusion: Some Financial Products really need HEALTH CHECKs in this Global Financial Meltdown. <BR/>You Decide! as the Govt. cannot look after what you do as you are the master of your DESTINY!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-72484054383110829612008-11-01T12:37:00.000+08:002008-11-01T12:37:00.000+08:00You're right. I wonder what kind of punishment can...You're right. I wonder what kind of punishment can suspending RMs make? Probably structured products cannot sell anyway in this climate. RMs prob planning to leave job, change industry anyway. No loss to RMs cos they did not have to study very hard to become financial advisors anyway.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-28107130184756008052008-11-01T11:16:00.000+08:002008-11-01T11:16:00.000+08:00Blame the milk maids?Well SOMEONE got to 'kick the...Blame the milk maids?<BR/><BR/>Well SOMEONE got to 'kick the bucket' in a soured milk farm<BR/><BR/>Conveniently so tooAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-47780012389422860662008-11-01T07:51:00.000+08:002008-11-01T07:51:00.000+08:00Todays Straits Times reported RMs being suspended ...Todays Straits Times reported RMs being suspended by DBS? MAS should barred Banks from 'selling any form of investments or insurance' products with immediate effect pending completion of full investogations. I am not trying to destroy the RMs rice bowl, but the Banks need to pay a price for it. I remember 2 years ago my friend's mum (60 years old) was sold Pru ILP $15,000 as alternative to FD. No point suspend the RMs when the root of the problem is the RMs bosses. This is the problem with our Singapore Management. Any problem poor workers kenna and the bosses got away free. Is this democratic?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-79807608836324546272008-10-31T23:40:00.000+08:002008-10-31T23:40:00.000+08:00I was merely trying to give DBS the benefit of the...I was merely trying to give DBS the benefit of the doubt. Anyone is free to decide which is the greater crime - being clueless or wilful misrepresentation.<BR/><BR/>My apologies if I offended any investors.<BR/><BR/>Best regards<BR/>Lim Kay WeeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-54564637725484619512008-10-31T20:28:00.000+08:002008-10-31T20:28:00.000+08:00" only proof that DBS as an institution is clueles..." only proof that DBS as an institution is clueless about how the product actually works and that it is not out to defraud the customers with wilful misrepresentation."<BR/><BR/>What nonsense ? Any difference from selling a tonix poison manned for rat eradication and instead sell it for human consumption because the storeman is clueless on what the product is about. It is even worse than misrepresentation ?<BR/><BR/>There is a big gap between clueless and representation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-72409601874329670342008-10-31T12:50:00.000+08:002008-10-31T12:50:00.000+08:00Whose agenda are you referring to? All investors o...Whose agenda are you referring to? All investors of DBS High Notes Series can bring up their cases against DBS with or without an agenda.<BR/><BR/>Best regards<BR/>Lim Kay WeeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-52209013545723556562008-10-31T12:19:00.000+08:002008-10-31T12:19:00.000+08:00got newsthere will be no compensation the matter n...got news<BR/><BR/>there will be no compensation the matter not on agendaAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-57274423178288106362008-10-31T12:12:00.000+08:002008-10-31T12:12:00.000+08:00In a letter dated 31 March 2008 sent by DBS regard...In a letter dated 31 March 2008 sent by DBS regarding DBS High Notes, it was stated “.... it would take several underlying reference entities in the collateral to suffer Credit Events before investors suffer a loss to their principal amount."<BR/><BR/>In actual fact, it only requires one underlying reference entity to suffer a credit event to wipe out the whole principal amount, not several underlying reference entities. This is the case in the bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers which is a credit event to only one single reference entity.<BR/><BR/>Saying that it requires several reference entities to suffer credit events before any losses will be incurred gives investors the wrong impression that there is some kind of buffer and may have delayed them from selling the product and cutting their losses earlier. <BR/><BR/>Furthermore, since an official letter from DBS can get it so wrong with regards to the workings of the product, then it is reasonable to conclude that the Relationship Managers selling the product is no better at explaining the exact workings and risks of the product to customers when making the sales. <BR/><BR/>Thus, I do believe that the investors of all DBS High note series have a strong case against DBS if they wish to recoup all their money. I wish to stress that base my above analysis, every investors have a strong case regardless of your investment risk profile/appetite. The best course of action is for all the investors to negotiate with DBS or take other necessary actions collectively. I urge all investors of all DBS High Notes Series to seek legal redress if DBS is not willing to accept full responsibility as I believe DBS is standing on shaky grounds as a result of the release of the said letter to the investors.<BR/><BR/>I wish to give DBS the benefit of the doubt and believe that this is only proof that DBS as an institution is clueless about how the product actually works and that it is not out to defraud the customers with wilful misrepresentation.<BR/><BR/>Best Regards<BR/>Lim Kay WeeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-67390850697780703912008-10-31T12:08:00.000+08:002008-10-31T12:08:00.000+08:00Yes I agree with REX. The blanket compensation for...Yes I agree with REX. The blanket compensation for "vunerable" group is the wrong way of doing it. By law of large number there will be some of te "vunerable" group who did not got misled and bought the lemon products with full information. Similarly there are also many others in the "non-vunerable" group who were misled.<BR/><BR/>Compensation should only be given to those who are truely victim. Otherwise, it is unfair to both victims and the institutions. Many victims would not receive compensation because they are not in certain category while the institutions will be incuring unnecessary losses which led to low P/L and ultimately lost of jobs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-42035682724433527192008-10-31T07:55:00.000+08:002008-10-31T07:55:00.000+08:00I see a lot of fuming still that FIs should compen...I see a lot of fuming still that FIs should compensate fully everybody, that this will reduce suffering and build national unity, a caring nation, etc.<BR/><BR/>I think this stems from the extremist view that FI's are 100% liable. I take the view that FI's are also human, they make mistakes due to the clever crooks in wall street cheating even professors and learned people as well as man in the street.<BR/><BR/>Remember, FI's in Singapore give jobs to singaporeans. Remember if FIs compensate 100% of the people 100% their investment, the FIs P&L will be in big trouble. Many of them will go bankrupt and retrench very very much more number of singaporeans. Ok the investors get back 100%, but there will be 10000 people out of job and FI closures will also bring another set of economic problems. Lets face it this is global problem caused by world wide cheats. We cannot make the FIs bear 100% of the cost to 100% of the people in the name of national unity, etc.!!!<BR/><BR/>I stick to the simple view that MAS should instruct all the FIs to target to compensate 50% of 100% of the people. Anyone wishing to go for more than 50% can go for a lawsuit on a private basis. If they lose they will forfeit even the rights of the 50% and they also pay legal fees. Then there is some objectivity and we avoid all the completely useless lengthy discussions best left to lawyers.<BR/><BR/>REXAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-21330758020928949442008-10-31T07:53:00.000+08:002008-10-31T07:53:00.000+08:00Structured products affected by Lehman brothers = ...Structured products affected by Lehman brothers = 10,000 victims.<BR/>All Structured products that may be at risks = 80,000 -100,000 investors?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-2035823378576554132008-10-31T07:00:00.000+08:002008-10-31T07:00:00.000+08:0010.00 PMExcellent summary of situation.Productivit...10.00 PM<BR/><BR/>Excellent summary of situation.<BR/><BR/>Productivity Loss = 10,000 customers x 3 family members x 5 relatives x 5 work colleagues x 5 friends = Local Population = Reputational Risk.<BR/><BR/>ObserverAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-16930492620633559352008-10-31T06:48:00.000+08:002008-10-31T06:48:00.000+08:00May be can start another petition to request the a...May be can start another petition to request the appointment of independent person as mediator btw FIs and victims for a fair compensation. Mr Tan would be a good choice.<BR/>Friends & family members of the victims shd also be allowed to sign.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-27647020517911111012008-10-30T22:00:00.000+08:002008-10-30T22:00:00.000+08:00It's HIGH time to take a TOP-DOWN approach. MAS an...It's HIGH time to take a TOP-DOWN approach. MAS and the 3 Reputable Wisemen (quote 8:31pm) - if they haven't already done so - to AUDIT the FIs and their Product Specialists. ONUS is on FIs and Product Specialists to show DOCUMENTATION / PROOF that they have complied with all the ACTS / REGULATIONS / process / disclosure etc. Engage 3rd party AUDITORS eg KPMG etc. to do the AUDIT. Then PUBLISH their FINDINGS quickly.<BR/><BR/>BOTTOM-UP interviews with tens of thousands of investors take up too much of our Nation's RESOURCES. Cause too much STRESS to investors and their family members too. Many are staying up LATE to catch up with BLOG UPDATES. Many are meeting to discuss/sign letters/collective actions, meet lawyers etc. Many are distracted at WORK. Many have NOT ENOUGH SLEEP, are NOT PRODUCTIVE at work etc etc. This BOTTOM-UP complaint process, case-by-case interviews, have not be EFFECTIVE. Like "Robbed going to Robbers".<BR/><BR/>Surely our Government, MAS, Scholar Advisors etc can see all these going on. The world is entering into a Recession, and Singapore's MANPOWER - our valuable RESOURCE - should be focusing on Creating Values for the Nation. And NOT on going through SALES DOCUMENTS, searching for EVIDENCE of mis-selling.<BR/><BR/>What an utter waste of manpower. MOM if there's any way to measure productivity, I'm sure many are affected, many are not productive at work. Family life suffers, people (like myself) are on the web and emails, neglecting our children etc.<BR/><BR/>FIs have earned our trust and our monies over the decades, since our forefather nation-building days. Is it too much to ask the FIs to come forward to DO THE RIGHT THING. In turn, we will pledge the compensated amounts as Fixed Deposits with the FIs, for 3-5 years. There is no OUT-FLOW of cash for the FIs. Together we Build our Nation.<BR/><BR/>I hope in our next National Day, I can stand up proud to sing our Patriotic national songs, shoulder to shoulder with our bankers, brokers, FAs etc. I hope the Nation TRUST and UNITY will be restored.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-39095885429437604112008-10-30T21:50:00.000+08:002008-10-30T21:50:00.000+08:00Although MAS is supposed to be the regulator but I...Although MAS is supposed to be the regulator but I think they also do not want to be very strict with the banks and financial instutions otherwise this cannot do, that also can do, how to do business. Generally, people do not like to be scrutinized. MAS is not stupid, they probably is aware of what's happening long time ago. It is just that nobody has expected this Lehman, Jubilee, etc.. has failed and so many people, young and old are affected. So in the first place if nobody complains, who cares. Now that this has come out in the light, what can MAS says, admit oversight on their part or that they are being lenient?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-69998783687405715962008-10-30T20:48:00.000+08:002008-10-30T20:48:00.000+08:00HiSeveral people have requested for a new Petition...Hi<BR/>Several people have requested for a new Petition #5 for anyone to sign (and not just invsetors).<BR/><BR/>Can someone draft a Petition and send to kinlian@gmail.com. Thanks.Tan Kin Lianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00617069056914635271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-64193158572701129402008-10-30T20:31:00.001+08:002008-10-30T20:31:00.001+08:00We shall include in the partition #4 or start a pa...We shall include in the partition #4 or start a partition #5 to request to the Three Reputable Wisemen, independent parties (appointed by FI? Independent?) to publish their independent report on the whole issue and recomendation.<BR/><BR/>We sincerely like to hear their frank opinion!Their view cannot only for the comsumption of the FIs and MAS. It is called transparency!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-51937819100238565382008-10-30T20:04:00.000+08:002008-10-30T20:04:00.000+08:00May be it is a good idea to hv another peition to ...May be it is a good idea to hv another peition to request for tighter control over CLS. <BR/>It can be signed by all concerned sporean, not just the victims.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11702093.post-19026660623437495752008-10-30T17:18:00.000+08:002008-10-30T17:18:00.000+08:00I do believe that the investors of High note 5 hav...I do believe that the investors of High note 5 have a strong case against DBS if they wish to recoup all their money. Within this year alone, DBS sent out a few letters to the investors to "reassure" them. However in one of the letters, the explaination regarding how the principle amount invested in High note 5 will be affected is deeply flawed. This is proof that DBS is quite clueless about how the product actually works. I urge all investors to seek legal redress as I believe DBS is standing on shaky grounds as a result of the release of the above letter to the investors. The letter is sent sometime around March 2008 by a Vice President of DBS named Brandon Lam.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com