Nothing new nor helpful has been added. The reply given was understandably expected from the gahmen. Such a wordy reply that can be summed up in one sentence, "MAS cannot be blamed and we are not at fault".
2. "MAS does not judge the merits of the investment. This is stated on the cover of the prospectus so that investors understand that the securities are not endorsed by MAS." MAS has clearly over-estimated the financial intelligence of the average S'porean. Sorry we have let you down and we are not as smart as you in understanding all that technical jargon. Though I really thought that my financial advisor would have been helpful to translate it for me, but I secretly think they themselves don't understand it. Who was the prospectus written for then?
3."MAS checks, based on information provided by the issuer and its advisers, that the prospectus discloses the risk and product features, and that there are no false or misleading statements." I didn't find any evidence in this statement.
4. "In doing so, FIs must consider the investment objectives, financial situation and needs of the investor." Did the RM's in each FI dutifully assess these situations and needs of the investors? Would ah pek want to put all of his retirement funds in a high-risk low return investment?
6."MAS launched the MoneySENSE national financial education programme in 2003 to enhance the financial literacy of consumers." Ah pek only had primary school education. He is illiterate and cannot access the internet nor does he read the newspapers. He fully relies on and trusts his "financial advisor" to handle his life savings. Especially the gahmen-backed national bank, what could go wrong?
15."MAS has full confidence that the three independent parties will carry out their work objectively." I didn't really understand this statement. Can someone please enlighten me?
The reply is disappointing. The reply is an echo of what we have been hearing the last few days. 1.It fails to address a few issues. It has not addressed what MAS would do to check the the products before release to the investing public. 2.MAS has clung to its argument that onus of due diligence lies with the investors and to make informed decision. This is tantamount to Caveat Emptor. The minister thinks that Moneysense public education is sufficient to empower the consumers to make informed decision. This is real sick joke. The RMs or the advisers and insurance agents are unable to understand what they are doing he expects the investors to understand. If public education can equip consumers to make choices and to invest Independently there is no need for over the counter investment, RMs, insurance agents , advisers. Public can buy on line and save a lot of commission. Let me ask the Minister whether he is able to invest just by reading the prospectus since he is a Minister he must be very educated to invest without the help of an adviser.He is speaking through his butt. 3.Probably the minister need not invest and need not make investment decision, there fore he has no chance of finding out himself the standard of the advisers. He thinks that CMFAS education standard is adequate for the advisers to dispense good financial advice.He is getting wrong feedback. 4.MAS is defending its stand that it desires a balanced oversight. Where got????? There is no little regulation let alone over regulation. Leaving to FIs to self regulate is a BIG mistake. All these years the FIs have been doing plum pudding. Their only concerns were profit and profits that their front line salesmen and women were given free hand to do what they like and this is the result of it, mis-selling and misrepresentation and toxic products. There is no guideline regarding designing of products. FIs are given a free hand again. They can design dubious products to cheat the public and that is how the Minibomb escaped the no check. The reply is a prepared speech drafted probably by mAS in defence of their recent lapses of rponsibility
I am disappointed with the Minister when he says that we all must make informed decision and pushing the blame to us. You saw for yourself many came to post that despite being CPA, engineer , MBA, doctors, CEOs they too have difficulty understanding financial products .The Minister says you should understand before making an informed decision. What informed decision? HOw to make when we don't understand.He thinks he can? This is one piece of pulling wool over your eyes reply. I wish I have not read it.It incensed me.
"MAS registered the prospectuses for the Lehman Minibond Programme, DBS High Notes 5 and Merrill Lynch Jubilee Series 3 LinkEarner Notes as they met the requirements for registration under the SFA."
I wonder what the requirements. If the requirements have been fulfilled and yet 8,000 investors (including educated ones and even RMs) have not been able to understand and appreciate the risks that ought to have been disclosed, perhaps MAS should re-look the "requirements" as they have been proven to be grossly inadequate.
Plenty of words from MAS but nothing concrete and constructive. Just bitting round the bush. Am also disappointed with the questions from the MPs - sigh. Mr.KL Tan should provide some questions for these MPs to ask.
Disappointed with the minister's response. Apparently, they are out of touch. You mean old people know abt these moneysense course? I guess I will emigrate to Hong Kong where they have better government who spare a thought for the mass.
Get Real tonight was a good summary of the Lehman saga especially the interviewees ranges from housewife, old folks and graduates.
From the day it happens till now, I have already become a independent. There again, what is 10,000 votes lost, heart breaking old folks, just continue to let the blame rest on us, the 10,000 victims of FIs' misrepresentation. What goes around will comes around. If you earned >$1 million a year, such lost is PEANUTS as you are in a DIFFERENT LEAGUE. The people high up just don't get it.
Very disappointed with Parliament today. Does not addressed the 'root of the problem'. Point 1 - If it is MAS oversight to approve the product, admit it and move on. The people will accept it rather than 'cover up' for MAS. Point 2 - To address the investors problem, get Banks to compensate 100% afterall the Banks has already made from the commissions, profits etc. Point 3 - Bring the FI decision makers to task, if they no longer in office summon them. For RMs etc to ask them why, is it due to company training to 'misled'? We should commend CNA Cheryl Fox for today's Get Real. Bank RM called no contact or email given, will not give in writing etc. If such issues like forgo cancer treatment, lifelong savings lost does not touch our Govt, what will? Suicides, I am not surprised it will happen - that's what happen during the early PanEl crisis, this does not touch them either. I bet if GIC or Temasek has invested in these instruments, they will definitely take prompt action to get their money back. Today's Parliament is only talk and talk, bank needs time to take stock etc. Maybe this week's session should imposed pressure to get results and deadline. MAS is just too 'blurr' as the saying goes, pardon me 'Mana Ada System'. A simple 'peanut' problem cannot solve. Have the team petition to our Dear PRESIDENT or Copy to him.
What is MONEYSENSE? It's money making from what I know, CPF Board engaged speakers from FAs and FIs to talk and get leads - they should get independant people like Mr Tan to educate the public. As they say, MAS, FIs and others are out of touch with the industry.
I agree that education may not solve everything but this doesn't mean that investors have no role to play. I think we should be responsible also for conducting our basic checks instead of relying solely on others' advice. Even for medical conditions, some will also take the effort to learn a bit more about their own conditions. They are not trying to play doctor, they just want to find out more about their physical ailments. I'm sure that's the reason for Mr Tan's blog too, to educate the public. If you are able to read his posts, that means you should be able to do some basic googling to find out more for yourself. Hopefully through this, everyone involved will learn something new through this incident.
Money sense helps you to be money sensible only and will not make you an expert to be able to make an informed decision. If a CPA with the knowledge and years of expereince has difficulty sometimes to make an informed decision what makes you think attending money sense talk will turn you into an expert. At the best people who attend talk may have some idea of what is whole life or endowment or term or an ILP or UTs or financial planning or estate planning and all these can help you to understand your needs better so that when you are engaging with an adviser you can MAKE SENSE of these words.This is as far you can get.You don't become investment or financially savvy but you not blur. I think the Minister of Trade misrepresented and mis-sold MONEY SENSE. MONEY SENSE helps you to make sense of what financial adviser is advising you. It does NOT help you to make informed decision ,DIY or to do self medication.You still need an adviser to help you, to tell you whether a product is good or bad for you based on the needs and circumstances uncovered.The adviser CANNOT tell you and say ," ok, you make the decision. I told you everything about the product. You make y0ur own judgement and decide." Yes, it is definitely beneficial to understand those words so that you won't get cheated by insurance agents who push products to you. You know that the agent has to do more than this. He has to check your financial circumstances, your needs before he can IDENTIFY a product to meet the needs uncovered by the check up. So understanding that this is to be done by an adviser and if you find that an insurance agent is not doing it but pushing a product to you, you will know this agent is not to be trusted. ThIS IS an example how MONEYSENSE CAN HELP YOU to look out..to make sense of the products and the way your needs should be approached and NOT making the informed decision the Minister have you believed.I am disappointed too.
It's very sad to watch Get Rea. Cheryl Fox has done a good show and coverage. May be the name should be change to MMCS aka Monetary Monitoring Company of S'pore, the word Authority is "misleading", what again? Mr Tan, you have done a greatthe show, I can't help shedding my tears over those interviews. Should you decide to run for the President, my family 3 generations will put our 30 over signatures on the paper to help you meet 100,000 quota. You are not only kind but selfless, the next time I go to Hong Lim, I will bring a box of tissue papers for you to clean your sweat.
'So MAS has never said that these are risk-free products or low-risk products or safe products.' - LHK
In other words, these products are high-risk products.
So all of us who have bought relying on brochures that say we can "enjoy the returns with peace of mind"; relying on websites that say "suitable for conservative investors"; relying on RMs who say they are low-risk products, have all been misled. Thank you, Mr Lim for helping us in our claims against the FIs.
"Mr Lim also said that if the issue is taken to court, nothing will move amid the legal wrangling." - Looks like Mr Lim has no faith in our legal system. I wonder whether his statement amounts to comptempt of court?
Dear If, very well written. Guess Mr Lim like all other on the top just recite speech written for him by MAS and he does not know what is really going on. Very sad indeed. What happen to our Parliamentary Committee for Finance - guess sleeping or they do not want to step themselves as they themselves are in the FIs.
I am more disappointed than ever. I hope a larger crowd will gather at Hong Lim this Saturday, the government and MAS are obviously not hearing the message loud enough.
So lame. What a shame. Unable to take responsibility for their complacency. Then, blame it on the retiree and the citizen investors. So we are complacent and let us move on and on and on in a merry go round.
So disappointed with MAS.
ReplyDeleteNo difference from what you have known before.
ReplyDeleteNothing new nor helpful has been added. The reply given was understandably expected from the gahmen. Such a wordy reply that can be summed up in one sentence, "MAS cannot be blamed and we are not at fault".
ReplyDelete2. "MAS does not judge the merits of the investment. This is stated on the cover of the prospectus so that investors understand that the securities are not endorsed by MAS." MAS has clearly over-estimated the financial intelligence of the average S'porean. Sorry we have let you down and we are not as smart as you in understanding all that technical jargon. Though I really thought that my financial advisor would have been helpful to translate it for me, but I secretly think they themselves don't understand it. Who was the prospectus written for then?
3."MAS checks, based on information provided by the issuer and its advisers, that the prospectus discloses the risk and product features, and that there are no false or misleading statements." I didn't find any evidence in this statement.
4. "In doing so, FIs must consider the investment objectives, financial situation and needs of the investor." Did the RM's in each FI dutifully assess these situations and needs of the investors? Would ah pek want to put all of his retirement funds in a high-risk low return investment?
6."MAS launched the MoneySENSE national financial education programme in 2003 to enhance the financial literacy of consumers." Ah pek only had primary school education. He is illiterate and cannot access the internet nor does he read the newspapers. He fully relies on and trusts his "financial advisor" to handle his life savings. Especially the gahmen-backed national bank, what could go wrong?
15."MAS has full confidence that the three independent parties will carry out their work objectively." I didn't really understand this statement. Can someone please enlighten me?
The reply is disappointing. The reply is an echo of what we have been hearing the last few days.
ReplyDelete1.It fails to address a few issues. It has not addressed what MAS would do to check the the products before release to the investing public.
2.MAS has clung to its argument that onus of due diligence lies with the investors and to make informed decision. This is tantamount to Caveat Emptor. The minister thinks that
Moneysense public education is sufficient to empower the consumers to make informed decision. This is real sick joke.
The RMs or the advisers and insurance agents are unable to understand what they are doing he expects the investors to understand.
If public education can equip consumers to make choices and to invest Independently there is no need for over the counter investment, RMs, insurance agents , advisers. Public can buy on line and save a lot of commission.
Let me ask the Minister whether he is able to invest just by reading the prospectus since he is a Minister he must be very educated
to invest without the help of an adviser.He is speaking through his butt.
3.Probably the minister need not invest and need not make investment decision, there fore he has no chance of finding out himself the standard of the advisers.
He thinks that CMFAS education standard is adequate for the advisers to dispense good financial advice.He is getting wrong feedback.
4.MAS is defending its stand that it desires a balanced oversight. Where got????? There is no little regulation let alone over regulation. Leaving to FIs to self regulate is a BIG mistake. All these years the FIs have been doing plum pudding. Their only concerns were profit and profits that their front line salesmen and women were given free hand to do what they like and this is the result of it, mis-selling and misrepresentation and toxic products.
There is no guideline regarding designing of products. FIs are given a free hand again. They can design dubious products to cheat the public and that is how the Minibomb escaped the no check.
The reply is a prepared speech drafted probably by mAS in defence of their recent lapses of rponsibility
I am disappointed with the Minister when he says that we all must make informed decision and pushing the blame to us.
ReplyDeleteYou saw for yourself many came to post that despite being CPA, engineer , MBA, doctors, CEOs they too have difficulty understanding financial products .The Minister says you should understand before making an informed decision. What informed decision? HOw to make when we don't understand.He thinks he can?
This is one piece of pulling wool over your eyes reply. I wish I have not read it.It incensed me.
How can the Bank be at faults?
ReplyDeleteCos if the bank is at faults,means the regulator or MAS is at faults.
The only way is to say the investor is at faults, they are lack of education and didn't do their home work well while investing...
So we should better educate the investors instead...this is the medicine..
Just swallow the medicine...as prescribed, and you shall be healed
This medicine is prescribed by our elites..
"MAS registered the prospectuses for the Lehman Minibond Programme, DBS High Notes 5 and Merrill Lynch Jubilee Series 3 LinkEarner Notes as they met the requirements for registration under the SFA."
ReplyDeleteI wonder what the requirements. If the requirements have been fulfilled and yet 8,000 investors (including educated ones and even RMs) have not been able to understand and appreciate the risks that ought to have been disclosed, perhaps MAS should re-look the "requirements" as they have been proven to be grossly inadequate.
Nothing new and no additional information. Disappointed but expected. Mis representation issue not covered only mis selling.
ReplyDeleteJust hope that some one can be found to take over as counter party.
Plenty of words from MAS but nothing concrete and constructive. Just bitting round the bush. Am also disappointed with the questions from the MPs - sigh. Mr.KL Tan should provide some questions for these MPs to ask.
ReplyDeleteDisappointed with the minister's response. Apparently, they are out of touch. You mean old people know abt these moneysense course? I guess I will emigrate to Hong Kong where they have better government who spare a thought for the mass.
ReplyDeleteHong Kong MAS 1 Sgp MAS 0
ReplyDeleteLike Obama says, "Mxx still don't get it"
Get Real tonight was a good summary of the Lehman saga especially the interviewees ranges from housewife, old folks and graduates.
From the day it happens till now, I have already become a independent. There again, what is 10,000 votes lost, heart breaking old folks, just continue to let the blame rest on us, the 10,000 victims of FIs' misrepresentation. What goes around will comes around. If you earned >$1 million a year, such lost is PEANUTS as you are in a DIFFERENT LEAGUE. The people high up just don't get it.
Very disappointed with Parliament today. Does not addressed the 'root of the problem'. Point 1 - If it is MAS oversight to approve the product, admit it and move on. The people will accept it rather than 'cover up' for MAS. Point 2 - To address the investors problem, get Banks to compensate 100% afterall the Banks has already made from the commissions, profits etc. Point 3 - Bring the FI decision makers to task, if they no longer in office summon them. For RMs etc to ask them why, is it due to company training to 'misled'? We should commend CNA Cheryl Fox for today's Get Real. Bank RM called no contact or email given, will not give in writing etc. If such issues like forgo cancer treatment, lifelong savings lost does not touch our Govt, what will? Suicides, I am not surprised it will happen - that's what happen during the early PanEl crisis, this does not touch them either. I bet if GIC or Temasek has invested in these instruments, they will definitely take prompt action to get their money back. Today's Parliament is only talk and talk, bank needs time to take stock etc. Maybe this week's session should imposed pressure to get results and deadline. MAS is just too 'blurr' as the saying goes, pardon me 'Mana Ada System'. A simple 'peanut' problem cannot solve. Have the team petition to our Dear PRESIDENT or Copy to him.
ReplyDeleteWhat is MONEYSENSE? It's money making from what I know, CPF Board engaged speakers from FAs and FIs to talk and get leads - they should get independant people like Mr Tan to educate the public. As they say, MAS, FIs and others are out of touch with the industry.
ReplyDeleteI agree that education may not solve everything but this doesn't mean that investors have no role to play. I think we should be responsible also for conducting our basic checks instead of relying solely on others' advice. Even for medical conditions, some will also take the effort to learn a bit more about their own conditions. They are not trying to play doctor, they just want to find out more about their physical ailments. I'm sure that's the reason for Mr Tan's blog too, to educate the public. If you are able to read his posts, that means you should be able to do some basic googling to find out more for yourself. Hopefully through this, everyone involved will learn something new through this incident.
ReplyDeleteMoney sense helps you to be money sensible only and will not make you an expert to be able to make an informed decision. If a CPA with the knowledge and years of expereince has difficulty sometimes to make an informed decision what makes you think attending money sense talk will turn you into an expert.
ReplyDeleteAt the best people who attend talk may have some idea of what is whole life or endowment or term or an ILP or UTs or financial planning or estate planning and all these can help you to understand your needs better so that when you are engaging with an adviser you can MAKE SENSE of these words.This is as far you can get.You don't become investment or financially savvy but you not blur.
I think the Minister of Trade misrepresented and mis-sold MONEY SENSE. MONEY SENSE helps you to make sense of what financial adviser is advising you. It does NOT help you to make informed decision ,DIY or to do self medication.You still need an adviser to help you, to tell you whether a product is good or bad for you based on the needs and circumstances uncovered.The adviser CANNOT tell you
and say ," ok, you make the decision. I told you everything about the product. You make y0ur own judgement and decide."
Yes, it is definitely beneficial to understand those words so that you won't get cheated by insurance agents who push products to you. You know that the agent has to do more than this. He has to check your financial circumstances, your needs before he can IDENTIFY a product to meet the needs uncovered by the check up. So understanding that this is to be done by an adviser and if you find that an insurance agent is not doing it but pushing a product to you, you will know this agent is not to be trusted. ThIS IS an example how MONEYSENSE CAN HELP YOU to look out..to make sense of the products and the way your needs should be approached and NOT making the informed decision the Minister have you believed.I am disappointed too.
Many times, the person who sells the product always talks all the good things about it and unfortunately hide the bad side of it.
ReplyDeleteIt's very sad to watch Get Rea. Cheryl Fox has done a good show and coverage. May be the name should be change to MMCS aka Monetary Monitoring Company of S'pore, the word Authority is "misleading", what again?
ReplyDeleteMr Tan, you have done a greatthe show, I can't help shedding my tears over those interviews. Should you decide to run for the President, my family 3 generations will put our 30 over signatures on the paper to help you meet 100,000 quota. You are not only kind but selfless, the next time I go to Hong Lim, I will bring a box of tissue papers for you to clean your sweat.
'So MAS has never said that these are risk-free products or low-risk products or safe products.' - LHK
ReplyDeleteIn other words, these products are high-risk products.
So all of us who have bought relying on brochures that say we can "enjoy the returns with peace of mind"; relying on websites that say "suitable for conservative investors"; relying on RMs who say they are low-risk products, have all been misled. Thank you, Mr Lim for helping us in our claims against the FIs.
"Mr Lim also said that if the issue is taken to court, nothing will move amid the legal wrangling." - Looks like Mr Lim has no faith in our legal system. I wonder whether his statement amounts to comptempt of court?
If
Dear If, very well written. Guess Mr Lim like all other on the top just recite speech written for him by MAS and he does not know what is really going on. Very sad indeed. What happen to our Parliamentary Committee for Finance - guess sleeping or they do not want to step themselves as they themselves are in the FIs.
ReplyDeleteI am more disappointed than ever. I hope a larger crowd will gather at Hong Lim this Saturday, the government and MAS are obviously not hearing the message loud enough.
ReplyDeleteSo lame. What a shame. Unable to take responsibility for their complacency. Then, blame it on the retiree and the citizen investors. So we are complacent and let us move on and on and on in a merry go round.
ReplyDelete