Mr. Tan
I submitted a letter of complaint regarding my pinnacle notes and I was told to fill up a feedback form. As usual I ask the banker how to fill up the form the banker just told me to fill up my name and he will fill up the rest.
Honestly I do not know what is written in the form and he told me is just a routine and the bank will get in contact with me soon. He didnt bother to explain the details to me.This is the same scenenio when I signed those risks assessment forms during the sales of the structure products.
I was told that there will be an early redemption (not due to credit event of reference entities) of the pinnacle notes series 10 and the return of my investment will most likely to be zero.
I ask why and I told him I dont believe the basket of notes or secuities worth nothing. The explaination given to me was that when the notes went into liquidation, the money will first be paid to the reference entities and the remainder then to the investors.
I do not understand why should the reference entities get the money instead of the investors.The money come from the investors and the reference entities are getting the money instead.It is not logical and I do not believe anyone even a small kid will invest in this type of product if it was properly explained.
To me this type of product was meant to fail at a start as a failure will benefit the others except the investors. It was designed to cheat investors of their money!
I also had an interview with one of the FI recently and I bluntly told them do not threatened me with the risks disclosure form that I have signed. I told them the risks disclosure forms that I signed was according to the risks that was told to me by the RM and not those hidden risks that was unknown to me.
Saddened Victim.
REPLY
I suggest that you should prepare a statutory declaration to support your complaint. This is explained here:
http://tankinlian.blogspot.com/2008/10/general-advice-to-investors-of.html
MAS must stop allowing product selling or pushing. There is so much evidence of mis-selling and misrepresentation caused by product pushing. Is MAS really bochap and not convinced that product selling is the cause of this evil. Do you need another debacle to be convinced?
ReplyDeleteThen wait for the insurance industry and it will be even more shocking and so much mis-selling and misrepresentation in insurance business and that will collapse the life insurance industry. There will be a run on the companies.
MAS, I urge you do something and stop product advice once and for all. I am sure the transition period of 7 years is more than enough for the FIs to move over to advisory. I am afraid agents who can't will have to be chopped. The industry has to move on for the sake of the consumers.
10,000 plus 700 so now 10,700. With other series to fail soon, the numbers will be up quickly.
ReplyDeleteAllowing the banker to fill up your feedback form on your behalf is the biggest mistake anyone can make. Should try to learn some lesson from other affected by this structured product collapsed such as the High Note 5 holders, they are very well organised. If I will you, I would go down to Hong Lim Park tommorrow and listen to what other note holder have to said.
ReplyDeleteHi Saddened Victim,
ReplyDeleteIf you have a copy of the feedback form, can you share it with us through this blog-site so that others that follow can be forewarned. Tks.
"Friday, November 14, 2008
ReplyDeleteBanker fill up complaint form, but did not disclose the content
...I submitted a letter of complaint regarding my pinnacle notes and I was told to fill up a feedback form. As usual I ask the banker how to fill up the form the banker just told me to fill up my name and he will fill up the rest.
Honestly I do not know what is written in the form and he told me is just a routine and the bank will get in contact with me soon. He didnt bother to explain the details to me.This is the same scenenio when I signed those risks assessment forms during the sales of the structure products...
...I ask why and I told him I dont believe the basket of notes or secuities worth nothing. The explaination given to me was that when the notes went into liquidation, the money will first be paid to the reference entities and the remainder then to the investors...
...I also had an interview with one of the FI recently and I bluntly told them do not threatened me with the risks disclosure form that I have signed. I told them the risks disclosure forms that I signed was according to the risks that was told to me by the RM and not those hidden risks that was unknown to me...
Saddened Victim."
Thanks for the story
BUT in front of the Court, how does one know FOR CERTAIN, if you are the Saddened Victim or that you made up the above, that THEY are the Saddened Victim
Do you have any thing in black white or hey colour video?
Hey Sadden Victim, why don't you gather other investors who bought the same product as you and form a group. I am sure you can find them at Hong Lim Park tomorrow at 5pm. Unity is strength. You can also seek out other group leaders from other FIs and get some ideas to help your group.
ReplyDeletewhen i first notice a reputable bank in Johor had attracted my dad 10 x 100K series of quities trusts and paid him close to 1000RM every month, I started to wonder. finally, 15 months later, we withdrew and move $ out from the bank. as i had told the stories...
ReplyDeleteI also observe the significant changes of personnel in few months, and the top Guns mobilise people from cities to small towns, promote them and keep turning more FD to trust investment.
that is why staggering S$9.2 bil book value was recorded in TOXIC CDOs.
I suggest a high profile team to investigate how it all started, from banks memo, emails, internal document. We must track it down....
SOme one retired in NY, the EX-CEO of DBS may know the stories... SUMMON him back to singapore....
make a POLICE REPORT. He may be the suspect and the introducer of TOXIC CDOs to Singapore?
ReplyDeleteHow muchunder writer commission he got outside singapore?
Unity is Strength?
ReplyDeletethe EX-CEO of DBS may know the stories... SUMMON him back to singapore....?
make a POLICE REPORT?
Listen to yourself.
You are no different from shooting in the DARK.
Is this the winning way? Have you received your REFUND notification?
We should get a copy for all documents that we have signed before leaving the branch.
ReplyDeleteInsist on your rights.
Dear Pinnacle Holders, We need to urge MAS do same thing for Pinnacle as miniBond, that is REMOVE the SWAP TRANSACTIONS so that to remove the risk of anymore default from toxic CDO list. Otherwise we will see more and more Pinnacle note collapse.
ReplyDeleteWe need to act fast!!!!!
Toxic products that makes you Topsy Turvy.......even signing also can make you TIPSY .....
ReplyDeletelessons learnt on the 3 Ts
TOXIC Product...
TOPSY TURVY reading the docs.
TIPSY when signing.
Looks like some spell in that so called TOXIC product in the first place!
If only Harry Potter could come to the rescue!
Initially 10,000 minibonds.structured deposits plus latest 700 victims of Pinnacles 9 &10 structured deposits turned sour and what about burnt Oiloids investment silent losers?
ReplyDeleteUk Land investors and Nigerian scams that have conned others?
happenings in 2008.....
Please don't sign a blank form without knowing what would be written on it later on. It could be at your disadvantages, that you have approved to the written report stated to you earlier, which is not true.
ReplyDeletewell then why didn't you fill up the form yourself.
ReplyDeleteI was also conned to invest all saving into pinnacle note when my fixed deposit matured last year. Nothing to worry as it is the same as fixed deposit with higher return (5.2%) except the principal has to be on hold for 5.5 years, according to Hong Leong finance. Similarly, they always claimed the PIC is not around when I go down for the branch for checking. Promise to call back also has never realised. It seems like there's only 1 person in the entire bank is responsible and aware of the details. I wonder if the FI is just playing hide-&-seek with investors!
ReplyDeleteReference 1:27AM
ReplyDeleteI was intrigue to read how HLF sold you Pinnacle Notes "Nothing to worry as it is the same as fixed deposit with higher return (5.2%) except the principal has to be on hold for 5.5 years"
Those were the same words used to sell PN7 to me but this is through CIMB-GK, his exact phrase "akind to FD"(sic). I have his email to prove it. No prospectus or anything given. This guy has been my broker for at least 10 years. I am now going through the process of filling out their questionaire.
Mr Tan,
ReplyDeleteNot only are we acting as insurers but worse, our money is used to bail out gamblers according to this web page:
http://oxdown.firedoglake.com/diary/1752
I find this story hard to believe. Having kanna burnt by bank first time, person goes and trust bank again by signing questionaire and allowing bank to fill it in for him.
ReplyDeleteIf true, does he deserve our sympathy?
Whatever happened to "Once bitten, twice shy"?
No govt can legislate against stupidity.
"A fool and his money are soon parted".
I actually attached a letter of complaint and had them endorsed and even on the duplicate copy which I will be keeping. Bet they cant do anything funny on the feedback form(not complaint form).IF they do then there is even more evidence of malpractice.I kept the mrt card which will show the total time from the (nearest MRT station) to FI and back to the same MRT station.Definitely the time is to short to fill anything that require much reading and attention perhaps only the name and phone number.
ReplyDeletea tan,
ReplyDeletenow you know why there is a need to protect these fools. They have been fooled again and again. Salesmen know it, the marketers know it, the bankers know it customers are forgetful fools.
You know why life insurance can be sold so easily?
You know why investment products can be sold so easily?
Because the consumers are fools and that is why Caveat Emptor can be applied on them.
PM and the deputy chairman of MAS are flawed to think that consumers can make informed decision without the help of an adviser.
Of course the adviser MUST be HONEST and COMPETENT which are minimum requirement of a fit and proper adviser. MAS must also enforce it.
Insurance agents also fill the forms after the sale. Make you sign all the forms first. This is the practice. Wonder MAS approves or not?
ReplyDeleteI am a financial advisor, and have marketed some of these credit-linked notes to my clients.
ReplyDeleteMy clients all understood the risk involved and how the credit-default swap works. Despite of that, I cant help, but feel sorry for my clients and for all the investors who had lost their money.
What truly makes me ponder is; Can we trust the issuer and just take it that the redemption amount is reduced to zero after paying the reference entities and fee for unwinding the note... Meantime we are still waiting for their report.
And Btw to my understanding, the structured product was introduced to FI that it is relatively safe provided that there is no credit event. And hence, I believe many retail investors are aware of the risk but they are certain AAA, AA, BBB etc institution wont go bust. Given the current economy climate, what is not possible becomes possible..
I personally beg to differ the many unfair comments put against financial advisor, as myself and many of my collegues do our best to recommend products/solutions to our clients after acertain their needs and risk profile.
I can understand the many fustration. Although I know impossibilities, I pray for miracle that investors can retrive some if not all of the investment placed in these credit-linked notes.