My friend faced this problem three years ago. His father passed away without a will and left a HDB flat, some money in the bank account and some investments. He was not able to withdraw the money. He approached a few lawyers for advice. They all quoted a fee of more than $5,000 to get a letter of administration. As he had no choice, he paid this fee. Even so, the process took a long time.
Recently, I found that the subordinate court had written clear instructions in their website on how to get a letter of administration (where there is no will) or a probate (where there is a will). The legal fees of $5,000 seemed to be excessive for the paperwork of getting a court order.
I wonder if the lawyer had overcharged my friend? Do you know of other lawyers who are willing to apply for the probate or letter of administration for a more modest fee?
Tan Kin Lian
Recently, I found that the subordinate court had written clear instructions in their website on how to get a letter of administration (where there is no will) or a probate (where there is a will). The legal fees of $5,000 seemed to be excessive for the paperwork of getting a court order.
I wonder if the lawyer had overcharged my friend? Do you know of other lawyers who are willing to apply for the probate or letter of administration for a more modest fee?
Tan Kin Lian
The process to apply for Grant of Probate or Letters Of Administration is intellectually simple --- an experienced law clerk can do the steps, but is tedious and time consuming. Most lawyers can also submit the initial required documents online from their office PCs and also get his clerk to perform the High Court & Sub Courts caveat searches online, and to do the leg work going to various service counters in the courts and Chinatown Point when necessary.
ReplyDeleteThe overview of the steps can be found here:-
http://app.subcourts.gov.sg/subcourts/page.aspx?pageid=4425
The detailed instructions, forms and formats are found in the Sub-Cts Practice Directions:-
http://app.subcourts.gov.sg/subcourts/page.aspx?pageid=4433
Unfortunately most people won't be able to follow thru on their own as it's very time consuming & tedious. Lawyers know this and charge accordingly --- they also hedge against the case becoming complex e.g. ownership issues of the assets, disputes by family members and beneficiaries etc.
I think most people will need to set aside savings or insurance payout to pay for such expenses, and also not forgetting funeral expenses too.
I wish some kind folks will put some Singapore law portal in the internet for people to use.
ReplyDeleteIn today worlds, online portals have removed many jobs such as insurance (insurance direct), property (property guru), trading of stocks and futures, pharmacy etc and etc bypassing middleman and low value add services like lawyer stamps and letters..
Hi Spur,
ReplyDeleteThe tedious work does not need to be done by a lawyer who charge high fees. It can be done by a knowledgeable person, like you, who can charge half of the fee of the lawyer. How about doing this as a business? You can offer it under FISCA. Send an email to kinlian@gmail.com, if you are keen to explore this idea.
There's no need for a lawyer in intestate case (no will). Just appoint someone as legal representative to do representation to OA. I myself have handled two such cases, for my mother (at my father's death) and for my aunt (at my uncle's death). The process would take 4 to 6 months and a few trips to OA, court and other departments concerned, cost a few hundred dollars, but certainly not S$5,000.
ReplyDeleteI think the best way is to educate people to write a will at modest cost of a few hundreds $. This solve the problem for most people. The cost of time is different for everyone depending on your profession so if it is tedious and time consuming, what cost you think is reasonable to charge?
ReplyDeleteI paid about $3k to administer my late father's estate. Indeed there's quite a bundle of paperwork and documents to submit and signed, plus a few visits to a Commissioner of Oath. Not something a layman can follow thru unless you have a lot of free time.
ReplyDeleteActually the legal fee is the least to worry about as it is almost insignificant compared to the size of the estate. There is nothing stopping the family from charging the legal fees to the estate.
ReplyDeleteThe real cost isn't the legal fee. The true cost is when the family is unable to decide who shall be the Administrator because of the need of other eligible Administrators to renounce their rights to be one. Nobody will be so silly to renounce their rights to be Administrator. But of course, in Singapore most people are financially illiterate to begin with and thus will not have any idea the implication of renouncing their rights to be Administrator.
Other non-legal fees incur will be when two surties have to be found because of large estate or when there are minors. Again, never ever be a surety but as usual in Singapore most people are financially illiterate and does not know the implication of it.
$5,000 is definitely excessive. 3 years ago I paid $2,500 for probate work.
ReplyDeleteWe always think that matters that deal with law or courts are too complicated for a layman to understand. Thus we are at the mercy of lawyers, so to speak.
ReplyDeleteDoes having a will solve or fasten the process? If so, perhaps, having a will written may be a wise decision.
Having a will merely means that you expressed in black & white how you want your assets to be distributed / protected after you're gone. Contrast with having no will and dying intestate, where your assets will then be distributed according to the law as spelled out in the Intestate Succession Act.
ReplyDeleteTo execute your will, the named executor(s) in your will still need to go thru the process to obtain the Grant Of Probate. So if your executors are unable to afford the time & effort, they still need to pay a few thousand dollars to get a lawyer.
I have helped with some of my relatives, but quite standard cases e.g. simple property like HDB or condo, bank accounts, brokerage accounts. No businesses with various business partners, multiple properties with tenancy-in-common with many owners etc. Usual money spent if DIY is a few hundred dollars, mostly in stamp duties.
Btw, you still need to pay conveyancing fees and stamp duty to transfer ownership of condo or HDB (if allowed) e.g. to the children. For private property it is another few thousand. For HDB it is $100++.
Hi all
ReplyDeleteJust want to thank u guys for helping me save some money. I was quoted 3.5k to do a probate grant n it excludes additional costs like disbursement. I thought it was the norm til o read this post. So i did a search n found another law firm going it for 1.8k! Even with additional costs of 500, its still cheaper than previously quoted. Anyway, I'll kept u guys posted.
Hi Miss Chua,
ReplyDeleteI was also quoted 3.5K to do the grant of probate for my dad who passed on last week. I would appreciate if you could share your personal comments on the service and work done by the law firm you engaged which quoted 1.8K. As dad's will is specifically for the HDB flat, I thought that 3.5K is rather high. Thank you.
U can do a search on the internet to compare prices. The law firm i engaged is good enough to do the job. The final bill is about 2.3k after all the disbursement n fees.
DeleteHi Chris
DeleteThe law firm has just notified me that the application is completed. The final bill comes out to be 2.3k. I am pretty satisfied with the service n price. Like i say just do a quick search on the internet to compare the prices.
Hi Chris
ReplyDeleteMy grant of probate has just been issued. The final bill works out to be under 2.3k.
You can do a search for the law firms over the internet to compare the prices.
Hi Ms Chua,
ReplyDeleteMy dad had passed on last week and we need to get a Letter of Administration for his matters. We have been quoted from 3k & above.
We appreciate if you can share the law firm that you had seeked advice from.
Thank you.
Regards
Cynthia
We actually walked and called a few law firms asking for quotes and found one that charges a basic of 1.8k. We applied for their services on 18th May and it took them 7 months, inclusive of the period we had to make arrangements to sign the documents. Most of the law firms in Chinatown charges over 3k. It's best if you just call the law firms to ask for quotes. The final bill for our case turns out to be below 2.4k. No will in our case, so we applied for Grant for Letters of Administration.
ReplyDeleteCan advise which law firm you using?
DeleteI helped my wife with the Grant of Probate process after her father passed away leaving behind a Will and just completed the whole process. We did it on our own at a cost of less than S$500 and took us exactly 2 weeks, no more no less. The $500 was spent entirely on document filing fees, certified true copies of required docs, admin of oath and some minor service fees from service bureau. The process was tedious, cumbersome, sometimes I wonder if these legal processes are there just to create work for lawyers, no wonder many lawyers are rich. We made a total of 4 visits to the Service Bureau for document submission and collection and 1 visit to Sub-court to submit original Will. We followed the toolkit (see below link) and with the kind and helpful advise of personnel from service bureau (I really appreciate their help).
ReplyDeleteI am no expert, but I can give you some advice if anyone needs help. Just email me at chanhkr@hotmail.com. I am doing this because I think law firms here are simply ripping people off. They are quoting high charges because they think people don't mind since if there is a Will, there is money inside that doesn't belong to you in the first place.
Download Probate and Administration toolkit here, and following every single word!!
http://app.subcourts.gov.sg/civil/page.aspx?pageid=10967
Roy Chan
Hi Ms Chua
ReplyDeleteAppreciate if you can share the name of the law firm ?
Following my post of July 4, many people contacted me and some have successfully gotten their grant of probate or LOA done on their own simply by following the toolkit and templates provided. Some are not so simple or involved non-citizens or overseas assets so I had to advise them to find a lawyer. I am NOT a lawyer myself.
ReplyDeleteBefore you write to me, I have one simple request. Please read the entire toolkit from cover to cover first. You may realize that it already answers your questions. If you have not, then it is very difficult for me to give you any advise.
Toolkit Link -
http://app.subcourts.gov.sg/civil/page.aspx?pageid=10967
Template Link - http://app.subcourts.gov.sg/civil/page.aspx?pageid=90501&secid=3571
Roy Chan
Hi,
ReplyDeleteMy father recently passed away in India without a will and left behind an account in Singapore. We have already obtained the letter of administration in India and are now trying to have this resealed in Singapore. However all lawyers we have contacted so far are quoting in excess of SGD7000. Can someone on this forum assist or guide me to a lawyer who isn't a rip off.
Appreciate your help.
Regards,
AB
The grant of probate aren't so expensive... I got my dad's estate done for about sgd1500 last year. I think depending on how complicated is the probate. Btw, my dad did have a will before his death... It is using the will we applied for the grant of probate.
ReplyDeleteHi vedanta08,
ReplyDeleteMy father recently passed away in Singapore without a will and left behind a bank account in Singapore. Can u let me know how to appply for the letter of administration in India.
It will be very help full to me.
Thank you,
Rakesh.
I do not quite understand... since we need to pay lawyer for getting either the grant of probate or letter of administration, what is the advantage of writing a will... besides distributing your assets according to your wish?
ReplyDeleteIs it that getting LOA is more time consuming and the lawyer fee is higher?
The bank balance or share value in CDP may be just a few thousands dollars and it is definitely not worth to engage a lawyer. ... So what will happen if we do not apply for GOP and LOA?
ReplyDeleteAnother question is ... is it alright to transfer the deceased's bank balance using e.g. Internet banking before the account is being frozen? Has anyone done it before?
Hi...
ReplyDeleteCould anyone recommend a lawyer which can handle Letter of Administration ASAP (if possible within a month) and is reasonable in their price?
Appreciate revert soon.
Thanks
Hi,
ReplyDeleteAny recommendations for a lawyer who can handle LOA asap (preferably settle within a month) and at a reasonable rate?
Appreciate help soonest. Thanks!
The cheapest I have found so far for getting the grant of Letters of Administration for the estate of my late father who died intestate is this law firm: www.raymondlimco.com.sg
ReplyDeleteUsually charges $1.5k NETT (inclusive of filing fee) for assets < $350k. Ours is around $500k, and he charges $1.7k. I have received quotes from other firms ranging from 3k to 5k for the same thing! Those who are looking for a lawyer for Letters of Administration or Probate may want to try the aforementioned law firm. They are located in People's Park Centre.
As I was sent a message asking me whether the $1.7k I paid (as mentioned in my previous post) included the filing fees and disbursements payable to the courts, I thought I should post a clarification here as well for the benefit of anyone potentially reading this blog.
ReplyDeleteYes, the $1.7k is NETT, including all disimbursements and fees.
We had our grant of Letters of Administration extracted from the State Courts within one (1) month. However, I think the time taken may vary from case to case, perhaps depending on how complicated it is. Some cases may take a longer time.
My dad passed away without a will and he has 2 bank accounts which exceeded the $5k threshold, for which the banks require us to provide a letter of administration. As the balances are not significant, we are exploring if it is possible to apply the letter of administration by ourselves instead of engaging a lawyer. I understand that there have been some changes in the procedues since the blogger Roy last did it. I have not been able to find the required info on the internet. Therefore, greatly appreciate if anyone who has done it recently can advise on the current procedures. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteHi,
ReplyDeleteI am also looking for the same updated toolkit that Marianne has asked and as the Singapore courts have gone through a revamp - Probate matters are now handled by the Family Justice Courts since Jan this year, the websites have also gone through a refresh and I can't even find the original toolkit when I googled.
It will be much appreciated if there is an updated one that anyone can share with me.
Thanks.
Could not find the process of how to submit a request for administration but here's the link to the forms for probate and adminstration .https://www.familyjusticecourts.gov.sg/QuickLink/Pages/Forms.aspx
ReplyDeleteFound the link to the probate/ letter of administration forms : https://www.familyjusticecourts.gov.sg/QuickLink/Pages/Forms.aspx
ReplyDeleteThough wish there's a clear process given.
As mentioned in the comments above, things have changed slightly since probate matters have been taken over by the Family Justice Courts.
ReplyDeleteHopefully, this will help clarify the process a little more for those looking to DIY.
It's a rough breakdown of the process for getting the grant of probate and for getting letters of administration.
How to apply for Grant of Probate in Singapore
How to apply for Letters of Administration in Singapore
If you'd like to find out more about how probate in Singapore works in general, you can also check out the learning centre of Singapore Probate
Found a step-by-step guide on obtaining a grant of probate:
ReplyDeletehttps://singaporelegaladvice.com/law-articles/applying-for-a-grant-of-probate/
I recently filed a Grant of Probate and this is what I have done.
ReplyDelete1st Filing
Prepare the following documents before filing:
a) Certified True Copy of the Death Certificate (signed off by any solicitor)
b) Certified True Copy of the Will (signed off by any solicitor)
c) Caveats and Probate Application Search (Crimsonlogic will provide the search service for a fee of $24 and this can be done on the same day)
If you have done the above 2 documents, go to the Service Bureau managed by Crimsonlogic situated at Chinatown Point #19-01/02 to perform the first filing.
At the counter, you will be given a set of forms to fill up and these forms consist of various things where you have to fill up like name of the applicants, the deceased name, deceased address, etc. Don't worry, the counter will be most helpful to guide you during the filing process.
Within this set of forms, there is the Ex Parte Original Summons, Statement of Probate, Schedule of Assets, etc which are simple to fill in. These will be needed for the 2nd Filing.
**One important thing to do after your 1st filing is to present the Original Will for verification the next working day at the Courts Service at 5 Maxwell Road, #04-00, Tower Block, MND Complex, Singapore 069110.
When everything has been done, make your payment at the cashier counter and you will be issued with a number for collection. You will be notified by sms upon approval of filing and you are to collect by the next working day upon this notification. Remember to bring along your collection number with the paid receipt.
2nd Filing
You will have to submit these documents on you second filing:
a) Supporting Affidavit;
b) Adminstration Oath; and
c) Those approved in the first filing.
2nd Filing requires you to present these documents to be affirmed/sworn before the Commissioner of Oaths. There is a law firm opposite Crimsonlogic which provide the service.
Supporting Affidavit and Administration Oaths Forms will be given to you during you 1st Filing by the counter staff and has to be type written before you present to the Commissioner of Oaths. To save time, you can do this at the same time during the 2nd filing. This should complete the filing process while you await for the approval of the Grant of Probate.
I recently filed a Probate Grant and this is what I have done.
ReplyDelete1st Filing
Prepare the following documents before filing:
a) Certified True Copy of the Death Certificate (signed off by any solicitor)
b) Certified True Copy of the Will (signed off by any solicitor)
c) Caveats and Probate Application Search (Crimsonlogic will provide the search service for a fee of $24 and this can be done on the same day)
If you have done the above 2 documents, go to the Service Bureau managed by Crimsonlogic situated at Chinatown Point #19-01/02 to perform the first filing.
At the counter, you will be given a set of forms to fill up and these forms consist of various things where you have to fill up like name of the applicants, the deceased name, deceased address, etc
Within this set of forms, there is the Ex Parte Original Summons, Statement of Probate, Schedule of Assets, etc which are simple to fill in. This should be completed for the 1st filing and will be needed for the 2nd Filing when they are approved
Total cost for the 1st filing amounts to $161.20 + $24 = 185.20.
**One important thing to do after your 1st filing is to present the Original Will for verification the next working day at the Courts Service at 5 Maxwell Road, #04-00, Tower Block, MND Complex, Singapore 069110.
When everything has been done, make your payment at the cashier counter and you will be issued with a number for collection. You will be notified by sms/email upon approval of the 1st filing and you are to collect these documents by the next working day upon the notification. Remember to bring along your collection number with the paid receipt.
2nd Filing
You will have to submit these documents on your second filing:
a) Supporting Affidavit;
b) Adminstration Oath; and
c) Those approved in the first filing.
Make sure a) and b) are prepared and type-written prior to the 2nd filing at Crimsonlogic.
2nd Filing requires you to present these documents to be affirmed/sworn before the Commissioner of Oaths. There is a law firm opposite Crimsonlogic which provide the service at a cost. For convenient, I used the service at the law firm. Thereafter you could proceed back to the Crimsonlogic payment counter to submit your 2nd filing. There will also be cost of filing for the above documents.
Pls note - Supporting Affidavit and Administration Oaths Forms will be given to you during your 1st Filing by the counter staff and has to be type written before you present to the Commissioner of Oaths. To save you time, you can do this together during the 2nd filing. This should complete the filing process while you await for the approval of the Grant of Probate.
Hi TP,
DeleteI'm doing the the 1st filing already and today went to MND building. How long did you get their message reply? How much you paid for the 2nd filing? After 2nd steps what else need to do? Thanks
Anyone have a Affiliate of due execution of Will sample?
ReplyDeleteTIA
Hi CT,
ReplyDeleteSorry to have missed your posting! By now you should have received the notification. My second filing cost is :-
Cost of Commissioner of Oaths’ services include commissioner’s signature and rubber stamp = $65
- Cost of filing Supporting Affidavits and Administration Oaths at Crimsonlogic = $45.20
Total Cost for the 2nd filing = $65 + $45.20 = $110.20
After the 2nd filing, the family justice court will inform you (about 3days after) through Crimsonlogic of your application of grant of probate if you are required to attend court hearing. The date of hearing will be issued to you through the court’s letter when you collect the documents from Crimsonlogic.
A week later, family justice court, upon the decision that there is no necessity for court’s attendance, sent a letter informing you that you can proceed with the extract of probate.
You will have to go down to Crimsonlogic again to file the application to extract the grant of probate.
Cost of filing: $76.80 + $37.00 for the final searches and filing = $113.80
1 day after the filing, quite surprisingly, a SMS was received from the court informing that the extract of the grant of probate is accepted. Thereafter you could go back to Crimsonlogic to collect your applications and proceed to the Family and Justice Court at National Development Building in Maxell Road to collect the original Grant of Probate.
This completes the whole application process in Singapore.
TP
Hi TP,
ReplyDeleteYes. I went to Court hearing because of my affidavit of due execution of Will wasn't not done properly. Now need to redo it and submit.
Thanks for your reply
Hi,
ReplyDeleteMy wife did not leave a will. She passed away 8 years ago. She is survived by myself, and my 3 daughters.
She had some small value asset (less than S$5). And I need a Letter of Probate or Administration for me to receive that. My daughters (above 21) would like to indicate that they want me to receive that amount.
We did a statutory declaration for this but it was not accepted.
I am hoping this will be affordable as I am a single parent.
Please send an email to me at VDASP2022@GMAIL.COM if there is a legal and inexpensive way to do this.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI have just completed applying for a Grant of Letter of Administration to access my late father's estate. His estate is considered straight-forward with only 2 items in the Schedule of Assets. Like someone mentioned above that the process is intellectually simple but very tedious. I made a total of 10 trips down to LawNet @ Chinatown Point, Commissioner of Oaths, and Family & Justice Court. The entire process costs me a total of $460 and took me 6 weeks. Average time spent during each trip is about 1-2 hours include waiting and processing time, during non-peak hours like 3 to 5 pm. Lunch times will be crowded. I happened to be very free that period of time. If not, I cannot imagine how many leaves i need to take from work.
ReplyDeleteThe law firms that I have spoken to have quoted me an average about $3,000 and 6 months for my case. I find it atrocious to pay such money for legal paper works. There is nothing contentious in my case where I need the brainpower of a lawyer.
It can be even be slightly cheaper and faster if you do not need the Certified True Copy of the Grant. But I am not sure how useful (or not useful) it is. But at least OCBC needs to see the CTC.
In SG, there are solid processes in many life events, applying for HDB BTO, getting ROM, etc. I cannot understand why it is so tedious for Grant LOA and Grant of Probate matters. Hopefully, we can apply all these online using Singpass instead of all the leg-works.
Hello Everybody,
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ReplyDelete