Tan Kin Lian's Blog: NTUC Bonus Cut was a bad idea

Thursday, October 30, 2008

NTUC Bonus Cut was a bad idea

Hi Mr. Tan

When NTUC cut the bonus last year, the reason was to allow NTUC to invest the surplus into the stockmarket to get a higher return. Many policyholders opposed this move, as it would increase the risk. These policyholders are now proven correct, as the stockmarket dropped by 50%. It now appears that the cut in bonus is gone and cannot be recovered.

Earlier this year, you organised a collective protest against the bonus cut but did not lodge it at the AGM due to the assurance given by former NTUC boss Lim Boon Heng and the chairman Ng Kee Choe. The chairman also gave some assurance at the AGM. Are the assurances being kept and honoured?

As the bonus cut turns out to be a disaster, can the policyholders organise another protest to restore the old bonus rates? Can you take this matter to Speakers' Corner?

REPLY
Let me sort out the problem with the minibonds and other structured products over the next few months. We can review this matter in early 2009.

30 comments:

Anonymous said...: I am worried our government are gambling with people money in these investments they don't understand. Last time NTUC, then now Town Council. Only the two oppositions did not invest in risky products. Is it because of the strong mandate we gave them? The Town Council said that the risker products they invested are guranteed. I mean they still dare to say that after the lehman brothers saga. RM promised guranteed capital but not sure if its really protected.; October 30, 2008 6:13 PM
Anonymous said...: I support the collective protest against NTUC Income. I have already cancelled one of my policies in protest, but they seem not to care. Instead, they try to get me to buy their revosave and vivoshit.; October 30, 2008 7:21 PM
Anonymous said...: NTUC INCOME must account to the policyholders what they have taken from the annual bonus cut to invest in risky assets.We are sure that the extra fund they took from us was burned. We want NTUC to disclose the status of the fund.The restructuring was a bad move. It has increased the risk of the participating whole life and endowment products.
NTUC policyholders should take another look at their policies to see if there is any mis selling and to cancel them before they get deeper into losses..
1.Examine Revosave...did you know that revosave cash back return is WORSE THAN THE BANK RATE.DID YOU KNOW IF YOU SHOULD FOR SOME REASONS FAIL TO KEEP UP WITH THE PREMIUM PAYMENT YOU STAND TO LOSE A LOT? DID YOU KNOW THAT THE LARGEST CASH FLOW IS A THE LAST CASHBACK AND IF YOU MISS IT YOU WILL LOSE A LOT?
Did you know there are MUCH BETTER ALTERNATIVES than 'saving' in revosave? Did you know the protection given is short changed?
2. Did you know all the ntuc par products are like other companies'? Why? Like other companies NTUC wants you to hold longer so that they can make more money from you before returning to you at the end as called dubious special bonus? Right now what happened to the money sent to the special bonus? They are burned badly because of market downturn....
3. All participating products CANNOT give you decent return within reasonable time. Imagine keeping for 30 years to get 3%. Can't even meet inflation and it is a loss in real term.
4. keeping for whole life... Don't kid youself or don't let the ntuc agents bullshit you...it won't happen. MAS statistics shows
about 1% keep it beyond 65 years old. 99% need money for retirement and this is the most important and not some craps told by crap agents.
5. NTUC agents are no different from from the bank RMs. They only push expensive products to earn high commission so that they can qualify for mdrt or incentive trips.Like RMs your interest is NOT at the centre of the process but theirs..They fill up the KYC forms after the sale.It is dangerous to you. Mis-selling and misrepresentation definitely happen. Mis-selling is cheating.
Worse at their roadshows malpractice is blatantly committed
by misrepresentation.At their roadshow huge posters mis sell the revosave by showing a huge guaranteed cashabck. It can mislead the passers by.
MAS should investigate all these malpractices and enforce the FAA strictly..MAS must audit them especially those mdrt agents. I can bet that you get all of them.Malpractices are so rampant than before and if it is not stopped it will be another minibomb awaiting to explode.

EX NTUC; October 30, 2008 7:25 PM
Anonymous said...: A protest at the Hong Lim to demand the return of the cut bonus. We demand a report on the investment of our cut bonus.If it has gone sour we demand the removal of the ceo; October 30, 2008 8:26 PM
Anonymous said...: YOU might as well demand for free lodging for the rest of your life

you are getting neither.; October 30, 2008 8:49 PM
Anonymous said...: I support the protest against NTUC. Have them honour their words and restore my policies bonus to previous level or better, as they promised; October 30, 2008 9:25 PM
Anonymous said...: I support the call to remove the cEO. This ceo obviously do not have the interests of the policyholders at heart. I heard he is also a foreigner.; October 30, 2008 11:02 PM
Anonymous said...: Yes, If the NTUC CEO allowed to use our hard-earn money for risky investment and lost it, he should be sacked first. NTUC should not be treated the same as other commercial investment/ insurance company but as solely a policyholder, we have no way to stop them to take risk except to cancel my policies in NTUC....; October 30, 2008 11:58 PM
Raymond T said...: I definitely agree. NTUC Bonus cut as an EXTREMELY BAD idea. I did not support the cut at all. Too bad the collective protest was called off at the end.; October 31, 2008 12:43 AM
Anonymous said...: Received a call from them since two of my endowment policies are due to mature. Something about a 3% return and option to withdraw my money anytime. I said no thank you as I do not have any faith in their management now. They are still trying desparately to hold on to my money for as long as possible. It is clear that their investments have soured and it is only a matter of time that our promised bonuses, or what is left of it, is going to be cut even further to reflect these losses and further smoothing downwards. They do not even give my policies 3% yet can promise 3% for short term with option to withdraw anytime. Bollocks!!!; October 31, 2008 2:18 AM
Anonymous said...: 3% isn't decent if you think of the inflation of 6%.I suggest that you take them out before being gobbled up. If they propose revosave to you you better run as as fast as you can.
It is scam..It is less then 2% even after 25 years.; October 31, 2008 9:16 AM
Anonymous said...: Wonder any bonus for this year.cut it won't happen because that would put them to shame. But be careful it may be at the expense of special bonus. After all when they restructure it is for them to manipulate the bonus; October 31, 2008 9:37 AM
siewkhim said...: Kin Lian,

The way you reply is basically you are not going to do anything. Even if you intend to do something with the NTUC Income bonus issue comes this AGM, I don't think they care. They are no afraid of any damn protest or action you want to take. They have a big net ready to catch you from your ass, the moment you open your big mouth.

Look Kin Lian, you have offended MAS indirectly the PAP regime and many powerful and wealthy people linked to the regime. They will not let you go easy this time.

You know you game is up because you have made a fool of yourself.

The fact that you chicken out in the last AGM simply proves that your action has no bite meaning you have lost that iota of credibility left in you.

What a pity!!!!; October 31, 2008 1:49 PM
Anonymous said...: Perhaps Mr.Tan has offended MAS. But MAS and PAP have disappointed us Singaporeans who have voted them. I am shocked when Town councils admitted they lost millions, then NTUC invested in policyholders money in risky investments and now stand to lose it. I am really worried with Singapore's prospect.How could they 'gamble' with citizens' money. We trusted them to stand up for us and not to the few rich and powerful people. Remember, we Singaporeans are looking at current development. If PAP or MAS dare do anything to Mr.Tan, then I will be disappointed and might consider migration or change vote. I have always believe in PAP, don't disappoint us Singaporeans. Do the Right Thing.Remember the CME lessons we took? Its all about integrity. How could a selfless man be punished? We all have eyes. As Singaporeans, we want justice done. DBS and other banks have committed crime by selling these risky products to unsuitable customers. I believe the universe/God will bless a good man like Mr.Tan who volunteer his time and knowledge to help desperate people who lost their hard-earned money. Though I am not an investor, I will go to Hong Lim park and support you all.; October 31, 2008 7:10 PM
Anonymous said...: Siewkhim,

You are being overly critical of Kin Lian. May I add too that you are a coward. Kin Lian has the moral courage to stand up for what he believes in, and to-date, has proven that he is a man of integrity.

The NTUC Income management has mentioned that bonuses has been restructured to keep the total bonus payout the same. I believe we should give them the benefit of the doubt for the time being, with Kin Lian watching keenly on them.

Given that the investment climate this year is bad, let us see if they would cut the terminal bonuses next year. I hope they keep to their word of giving out bonuses in a fair manner (close to asset share).

Jumping to conclusions now after being emotionally stirred by the Lehman brothers debacle will do no NTUC Income policyholder any good at this moment.

blackbox; October 31, 2008 7:33 PM
Anonymous said...: It is the worse of times for these investors and also the worse of times for the RMs. It will be the worse of times for all of us and next year it will the worse of times for ntuc policyholders who fell for the scam of 'buy one get one free'(buy revosave to pay for vivolife) because next year this group of policyholders will run into financial crunch. When this happens then it will be the worse of times for ntuc agents who sold this rubbish package.; October 31, 2008 10:36 PM
Anonymous said...: wow!! ntuc agents also getting very greedy churning one product to buy another. Where did they learn? Is it new way of selling and creating more business for themselves at the expense of the customers? Is it introduced by the new management?
This modus operandi is similar to pru. No wonder ntuc agents are called by their management as super dupers. Aptly described as more customers are duped into buying the dubious package.
Indeed the world has changed. When the once idiots become creative it is a sign of the worse to come and the worse will come, more policies will be canceled.

jay; November 01, 2008 12:26 AM
Anonymous said...: When Mr Tan warned about these toxic structured deposits in his blog, over 10,000 people either did not read his blog or did not believe him. Otherwise they would have spared themselves of all these heartaches and sleepless nights.
Many still ignore his calls against the unfair unilateral bonus cut and unfair insurers' tactics. Ignore them at your own peril. If you still continue to buy into these toxic policies then some years down the road you will be having heartaches and sleepless nights too. Listen to THE MAN and not people like SiewKhim who hid behind an imaginary skirt trying to discredit Mr Tan just because his own BOTTOMline is now hurting.; November 01, 2008 1:42 AM
Anonymous said...: Next year when people start losing their job you will see many people lapse their revosave and vivolife which were dumped on them by unscrupulous insurance agents. Policyholders with these two toxic products , please look into them and report this mis-selling to MAS or get the company to refund all premium.If you don't you will run into financial difficulty next year when things get worse you will lose your hard earned money for which you had been decieved into buying these useless products. Get someone to review these policies to see if they really benefit you.You had been product sold wihtout your needs being examined first and they breached section 27 of the FAA.Please report the breach to MAS.Consumers must help to get rid of unscrupulous insurance agents and agents without conscience otherwise you will have insurance agents behaving like the RMs whose only interest is your money and commission for themselves. So do your part to report them to MAS.

Cat; November 01, 2008 11:30 AM
Anonymous said...: I heard these ntuc agents make ton of commission from packaging these 2 products together. The unwary customers who bought them may not know until they have financial difficulties. Revosave is really a rip off and does not benefit the buyers in any way, low protection and very low return, lower than the bank FD rates. And to divert the attention the agents sold the customers' the idea of 'reinvesting' into another rip off product, vivolife. Customers must ask themselves whether there is total enhancement more than proportionate to what they are paying. Check them now before you hit a crunch and report to the company that you were misled into buying this idea.You should be refunded the full premium otherwise lodge a complaint with MAS to punish the unethical and product pushing by the agent.

Concerned; November 01, 2008 5:42 PM
siewkhim said...: Hey you guys that worship Kin Lian as Lord Master of Singapore.

I am asking you to examine Kin Lian's action at the 11th hour of NTUC Income last AGM. What did he do? He throw in the towel citing al, the big names and sat during the entire AGM proceeding tongue tied.

Before the AGM, he was on the war path organising protest and collecting signatures just like what he is doing now, only that voicing your grievances at Speaker's Corner was not allowed by the PAP at that time.

Do you think your hero will not repeat his this again?

You watch and see and believe !!!!; November 01, 2008 5:56 PM
siewkhim said...: The current CEO of NTUC Income is a Malaysian. He was kicked out of Prudential as CEO and somehow this kind hearted Kin Lian make him independent director of Income. Kin Lian play punk with the chairman and subsequently with the progress of time irritated the entire Income's board. So they gang up and with the blessing from the political masters kick Kin Lian out.

So this Malaysian fellow not only stole the job of our Singapore born hero but also kick out his good friend, mentor and comrade in arms.

In this fucking world, everybody is making use of everybody and you will be intensely abused depending on your position, status and connection at that time. For example in Malaysia you can commit murder and get away with it if you are highly connected with the scum Malay Muslim UMNO bastards.; November 01, 2008 6:05 PM
Anonymous said...: MAS must investigate ntuc agents for mis-selling and
misrepresentation. It should send mystery shoppers to ntuc roadshows and catch them red handed.There will be enough proof that these agents are
product pushers and are breaking the law.; November 02, 2008 10:08 AM
Anonymous said...: 5.42PM,
i will be lodging a conplaimt with MAS that a agent mis-sold me the products; November 02, 2008 12:23 PM
Anonymous said...: Siew Khim,
Please be cool to face it. We are considerably much better if we compare to other countries like Malaysia, Thailand, Taiwan, etc...

If the government demand the highest pay from taxpayer, they should be obligated to perform and provide its highest standard and services, if they fail, just not to vote them in the next election..

Too bad the NTUC Income link to our government bodies that (may be)making Mr Tan has difficulty to pursue further...

I wonder who can decide the " destiny" of NTUC CEO? Shareholders? Government bodies?

Calvin; November 02, 2008 2:11 PM
Anonymous said...: Consumers mustn't follow the brand name blindly. It isn't the old brand name when Mr. Tan KL was at the helm.
The old brand name was a trusted name. You were assured of value for money but not now.
The new products have very low protection and low return. Why?
large part of your premium has gone to pay commission to greedy agents and profit to the company to pay high salaries to senior management staff. How much of your premium is left to pay your insurance protection and for investment? The cost of insurance is high and that leaves very little of your premium to accumulate as cash value. Not surprising, revosave returns less 1.6% and only if you hold for 25 years.The bank rate is higher and no risk and you don't worry what you can't keep up with premium payment.Vivolife is another rip off with low projected return of about 3% but only you hold it to 30 years. That is too long , isn't it.And if you do really hold and wake one morning after 30 years you discover to your horror that you have actually lost money in real term and the agent told you that you can convert to annuity for return..Well, i think you need to look for a toilet cleaning job to make up the lost years of saving. You have been cheated by an incompetent insurance agent who knew nothing except to bullshit you.; November 02, 2008 7:30 PM
Anonymous said...: We should give this bonus cut the publicity ntuc deserves at Hong Lim park when the time comes. We should invite the ceo a chance to defend the cut and to let him tell us the cut is 1% or 45%.
We also will let him tell how is he doing with the money he cut from our annual bonus. Is it making more money
or he has lost them for us.What is bonus for 2009? optimistic? or is he announcing bad news.; November 03, 2008 4:47 PM
Anonymous said...: report ntuc agents to mas; November 04, 2008 5:16 PM
Anonymous said...: if mas acts it has to look over the shoulder at the secretary of ntuc
He will ask 'you ask me i ask who?"; November 12, 2008 5:34 PM
Anonymous said...: the ceo is playing with your special bonus. He is hippocrate. he is scheming; January 27, 2009 10:23 AM

Thursday, October 30, 2008

NTUC Bonus Cut was a bad idea

30 comments:

Blog Archive