Tan Kin Lian's Blog: Speaker's Corner

Saturday, November 01, 2008

Speaker's Corner - 1 Nov 2008 5 to 7 pm

SPEAKER'S CORNER
Saturday 1 November 2008
Time: 5 - 7 pm
Nearest MRT station: Clarke Quay (NE Line)

Agenda:
1. Update on Petition #4
2. Help to complete complaint form
3. Dialogue with senior management of distributor
4. Collective legal action (as a last resort)
5. Meeting of investors (according to distributor)
6. Translation into Mandarin

Ask your friends and family to attend. Let us aim for a large gathering!

53 comments:

Unknown said...: A very good article by Goh Meng Seng on how Minibonds work:

http://singaporealternatives.blogspot.com/2008/10/this-is-what-minibonds-is-all-about.html

Even after extreme simplification by Mr Goh (Thank you, Mr Goh), I am sure many investors will still need some time to grasp it.

Shocking how such a product can be pushed as an alternative to FD.; October 30, 2008 10:30 PM
Anonymous said...: I think the question that you should honestly ask is:

had you know that the bankruptcy of the swap counterparty would result in problems for the notes, would it have changed your decision, given that Lehman is one of the oldest and largest investment banks on Wall Street?

And be honest. God is watching.; October 30, 2008 11:53 PM
Anonymous said...: To anonymous 11:53 PM, good question to ask but if this was explicitly mentioned by the banks then I believe that all investors who lost money have no case to fight...but if the banks have not even mentioned this at all up front, is this not the mis-leading or mis-selling that we are crying out loud for?

Just some food for thought.; October 31, 2008 12:06 AM
Anonymous said...: 11.53pm,
had I known I would have liquidated all my investment. if I had known.....; October 31, 2008 12:38 AM
Unknown said...: To anonymous 11:53pm

``Securitization was based on the premise that a fool was born every minute,'' Joseph Stiglitz, a professor of economics at Columbia University in New York, told a congressional committee on Oct. 21. ``Globalization meant that there was a global landscape on which they could search for those fools -- and they found them everywhere.

Securitization is a shadow banking system that funds most of the world's credit cards, car purchases, leveraged buyouts and, for a while, subprime mortgages. The system, which pools loans and slices up the risk of default, made borrowing cheaper for everyone, creating a debt culture that put credit cards in wallets from Seoul to Sao Paolo and enabled people to buy luxury cars and homes. It also pumped out record profits for banks, accounting for as much as one-fifth of their revenue over the last decade."

We are the fools who bought the high risk securities. Even if Lehman Brothers did not go bankrupt, it would only be a matter of time before the securities become worthless. No, I can honestly say I would not have bought it had I known of the true nature of the whole transaction.; October 31, 2008 1:12 AM
Anonymous said...: Some ones collected the particulars at Hong LIm park for those invested with Phillip.
After that there is no news.
Why collected the particulars & then disappear?; October 31, 2008 6:35 AM
Anonymous said...: 11.53pm,
I would not invest as I checked the referenced entities carefully before investing. There are some other products with Lehman which I have avoided.

I wrote the above with God watching.; October 31, 2008 6:40 AM
Anonymous said...: Todate the FIs seems to state that they are right from their brochures. I personally feel (though I am not one of the invester) that we should voiced out the point of 'misselling' by FIs, we want immediate action by MAS, not just talk and talk. How effective is the FA Act to penalised the FIs and bring justice. If it is just a 'paper' for 'show', people will have no confidence with the FIs and especially MAS. How long will MAS take action? FIs will 100% cover-up and maybe get 1-2 scrapegoats and move on. We need to imposed more pressure and 'timeline'. All the best; October 31, 2008 6:58 AM
CC said...: To 6:35,
What product did you purchase from Phillips? Was it Minibonds?
I am with the HN5 group. dbs.hns@gmail.com

I know there is a Minibond group.

Do ask who the person is before giving any particulars. You are not obligated to give any info you do not wish to share.

Best,
CC; October 31, 2008 8:23 AM
Anonymous said...: The truth is most if not all of the investors will not buy minibonds if the arranger and distributors highlighted prominently on the front page of the relevant brochures and prospectuses that they are not bonds of the reference entities and money collected will be used to insure investments of third parties.

JC; October 31, 2008 8:48 AM
Anonymous said...: How much public funds did PAP Town Councils lose in total from its i Message List

Reply | Forward Message #5151 of 5153 < Prev | Next >

29 Oct 2008

To: LKY
cc: Lee Hsien Loong
cc: various

Can you and your government confirm how much has been lost as a result of the current financial crisis?

What about losses (including but not limited to Minibonds, HN5, etc) incurred by Town Councils managing residents' money?

The residents have a right to know how their money is being managed and the losses incurred since they are "shareholders" with a right to know how their money is being managed.

It is already bad enough town councils do not convene AGMs (unlike private properties where annual AGMs are held to review financial results and appoint new committee for the MCSTs), so for accountability and transparency, they should reveal exactly how much has been lost ("small percentage" is not good enough - refer "Town councils said only a small percentage of their total investments were spent on those affected products.” from attached blog at www.wayangparty.com .)

Maybe Singapore should have its very own "The Government Accountability Project (GAP)" - like the one in the USA: to "promote government and corporate accountability" -
http://www.whistleblower.org/template/index.cfm

Rgds

==============================================================
http://wayangparty.com/2008/10/29/how-much-public-funds-did-pap-town-councils-lose-in-total-from-the-failed-minibond-investments/

How much public funds did PAP Town Councils lose in total from the failed minibond investments ?
Posted by wayangparty on October 29, 2008

By Eugene Yeo, Senior writer

We have received an anonymous email from Michael who claimed that a few PAP-controlled Town Councils have lost quite a substantial amount from the failed minibonds investment:

Hey Wayangparty,

You may be interested to know that a few PAP Town Councils lost quite heavily, possibly more than XXXXXX (amount not stated due to legal concerns) from the minibonds.

Sorry I can’t reveal any more details than I should, but if you are keen to pursue the story, you can check it out yourself. I am sure you have the relevant contacts.

Michael.

A similar post was made by “Eric” on Mr Tan Kin Lian’s blog yesterday:; October 31, 2008 8:50 AM
Anonymous said...: To 11.53pm

My reply to your question: Yes, in 2006, I would still have bought.

BUT, another Question: If I had known that the monies were to be invested in underlying securities which are not related to the 6 reference entities, would I still have bought?

My answer: even in 2006, I would not have bought.; October 31, 2008 9:10 AM
Anonymous said...: I would suggest to all affected investors who bought DBS HN5 and not getting compensated due to whatever reasons to boycott DBS by urging all their contacts and associates depositor of DBS to withdrew their cash from DBS and chose another more responsible bank.; October 31, 2008 9:51 AM
Anonymous said...: To 11.53
I would not have bought if I knew the risks went beyond the 6 Reference Entities and the word 'minibond' was not used.Now this word is replaced by 'notes' as used by Lorna Tan in today's (Friday's) Straits Times.I don't trust 'notes' but 'bond' gives that sense of security, which I now know is an illusion.I too didn't know (and wasn't told) about Lehman's role in the Minibonds, not even when I heard of its bankruptcy!And I certainly don't know and wasn't told about CDS.Yes I was foolish and ignorant but surely there was a lot of misleading right from the brochure to the FI's staff selling stance.; October 31, 2008 10:12 AM
Anonymous said...: And be honest. Everyone is watching.

Just that No One is listening.; October 31, 2008 11:01 AM
Anonymous said...: Hi Mr Tan,
Thank you for being so helpful, i m very grateful, i'll come to the speakes corner this sat. Pls all investor! come n gather together to work out the problem. Don't let Mr. Tan. Bravo Mr Tan.; October 31, 2008 11:25 AM
Anonymous said...: I request Mr Tan to prepare another petition to the government, ask them to investigate how many TC involve in the MB, and how much is the amount. Are these TCs also fooled by the FIs? Are they thinking MB is a bond which is very safe? Do they lodge a complaint? If they aware that they are investing into a structured product at the point of sale, why they still want to risk our public funds? This is very serious, all Singaporeans deseve to know, not only the investors.

Ong.; October 31, 2008 11:35 AM
Anonymous said...: To Tiang,

With regards to this:
http://singaporealternatives.blogspot.com/2008/10/this-is-what-minibonds-is-all-about.html

It is not an accurate reflection of what Minibond is all about. It is basically a FTD basket collateralized by a AA rated synthetic CDO basket. Cash flows come from three sources
1) FTD CDS premium
2) CDO CDS premium
3) MBIA/GE Bond coupons (which is the collateral for the CDO basket, depending on the series).

I just hope investors are not misled by the blog mentioned.

Thanks.

CK Lim; October 31, 2008 11:39 AM
Anonymous said...: Yes, god is watching. But I definitely would not have bought minibonds if I was informed that

(1) this is a CDS product in favor of Lehman
(2) this is not an investment in the seven reference entities' bonds.
(3) This investment involves in a sythetic version of CDOs.

yes, god is watching. I should remind the FIs' CEOs the same thing.; October 31, 2008 11:55 AM
Anonymous said...: ###Structured product already defaulted:

10,000 investors - Minibonds 8,000, DBS HN5 1,400 & ML Jubilee 350.

##Structured product with high risk to be defaulted:

*DBS HN Series 1,2,3,9,10 & First to Default link notes. DBS is both the arranger, issuer and distributor.

*Pinnacle Credit-linked Notes Series 1,2,3,5,6,7,8,9.10.11,12,15 & 16. Morgan Stanley is the arranger & issuers. The distributors are CMIB-GK Securities PL, DMG & Partners Securities PL, HLF Ltd, Kim Eng Securities PL, Philip Securities PL, OCBC Securities PL, RHB Bank Berhad & UOB Kay Hian PL.

Over the last few week and based on the experience of many victims in this blog and my conversation with my FA/RM, my opinion is drawn to that the FAs & RMs are of a disparity of quality among themselves. There is fraudulent misreprsentation in those who are well verse in the structured product whereas there are reckless & innocent misrepresentation acted recklessly or in belief of the structured product as a safe investment which they do not understand or not qualified to advise. Whatever it is, the FIs being the employers of them are fully responsible for the misrepresentation of their employees in respect of the structured products sold to the unsuitable investors.

Agreed with tiang that it is a very good article by Goh Meng Seng on how Minibonds work:
http://singaporealternatives.blogspot.com/2008/10/this-is-what-minibonds-is-all-about.html

My concern is that the LB Minibonds, DBS HN5 & ML Jubilee 3 have failed and what will be next? The DBS HN series & The Pinnacle Credit-linked notes series are all in high risk to fail?

Citing Pinnacle Series as an example with a brief on the three major areas of risk:

1.Credit Swap counterparty (Morgan Stanley)
Unless otherwise MS collapses before the redemption upon maturity, I suppose it is still a safe bet at the moment.

2.6 REs (DBS, UOB, OCBC, SingTel, CityGp & BAC)
I feel it is also a safe bet. Nevertheless, the risk premiums paid to MS should be quite small compared to the basket of 125 CDOs, simply becos that the probabilty of any of the 6 REs to fail is low.

3. The basket of 125 CDOs.
This is the main source of the return. The variable returns from this collateral assets contribute to the high portion of the investor's 5% annual return. The basket of CDOs is $US denominated so there is a currency play. Each of the CDS is assigned with a weightage of 0.8% and an assumed recovery rate of 40% if it default. It is also based on a mathematical process of probability to default in each and every CDO.
In Series 7, the credit event trigger-off point is 4.60%, and it is terrible to learn that Lehman Bro is one of the CDOs. In the list of CDOs, there are Freddie Mac, Fannie Mae, ML, Bear Stearn, Washington Mutual, Kaupthing banki hf (Iceland) and Glitnir banki hf (Iceland).....
U never know when it will burst.

Only wish to say that what is hidden in other structured products is equally terrible!; October 31, 2008 12:01 PM
siewkhim said...: Kin Lian,

Maybe you could take the que from Obama. Put it on national TV all 5 channels! You may get 2 millions people to see the great Kin Lian, the financial messiah from heaven giving his hard hitting speech at Speaker's corner.

They may may annoint you as Kin Lian Christ who knows they will worship as their God.; October 31, 2008 12:57 PM
CC said...: We're not alone.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601170&refer=special_report&sid=a6BcPFswn5EU#

DBS Group Values Most of Lehman-Linked Notes at Zero (Update2)

By Patricia Kuo and Jean Chua

Oct. 29 (Bloomberg) -- DBS Group Holdings Ltd., pledging to compensate some investors who lost money on S$360 million ($241 million) of structured notes linked to failed Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc., said most of the securities are worthless.

The Singapore-based bank, Southeast Asia's biggest by assets, notified Hong Kong investors that the securities it arranged will be redeemed on or about Oct. 31, while the redemption for notes sold in Singapore is expected around Nov. 3, according to statements on its Hong Kong and Singapore Web sites.

Demand by individual investors in Hong Kong, Singapore, and Taiwan for refunds from banks selling them structured notes related to Lehman have prompted some analysts to warn that earnings may be hurt. DBS said last week it expects compensation to investors to amount to as much as S$80 million.

``I don't think investors will accept that the notes are worthless,'' said Kenny Tang, a director at Tung Tai Securities Co. in Hong Kong. ``In the next one to two years, banks will need to find another way other than selling this kind of products to boost their non-interest income.''

The structured notes, offered by an offshore issuing vehicle called Constellation Investment Ltd., are similar to so- called minibonds, which are notes arranged by Lehman and linked to the debt of companies such as DBS, Hutchison Whampoa Ltd., Swire Pacific Ltd., Sun Hung Kai Properties Ltd., Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and Morgan Stanley.

Zero Value

Hong Kong investors protested outside DBS's main office in the city today before marching to the Singapore Consulate General, demanding that the government investigate the bank's marketing tactics, Cable 9 TV reported.

``The credit event redemption amount for the notes has been calculated to zero, and therefore no amounts are due and payable to the holders of the notes,'' DBS said in the notice. In Singapore, the bank said it calculated the value based on bids from five independent dealers.

Lehman's bankruptcy on Sept. 15 sparked protests by investors in Hong Kong and Singapore, seeking compensation for the products sold by DBS and other financial services companies. DBS said in a statement on Oct. 22 that the possibility of the 4,700 investors losing their entire investment ``is likely to materialize.''

The bank started compensating investors last week in cases where it didn't meet the ``standards'' it upheld, it said.

Customer Talks

Malayan Banking Bhd., the largest Malaysian bank by assets, said last week it will pay ``deserving'' customers who bought minibonds. Hong Leong Finance Ltd. said it will buy back minibonds from customers who were at Singapore's retirement age of 62 at the time of the purchase and aren't educated beyond grade school.

BOC Hong Kong (Holdings) Ltd., the city's biggest bank by assets, said on Oct. 27 it has begun talks with customers on compensation for minibonds.

Tang at Tung Tai said the impact on banks' earnings from the compensation would not be significant.

DBS, arranger of the Constellation notes, gave a monetary value to only two of the series sold in Hong Kong. Series 36 notes linked to Lehman's $1.5 billion 6.625 percent bonds maturing in 2012 are worth $435.36 each, compared with $5,000 of investment for each note, it said. Investors in series 37 will get HK$2,620.92 ($338), less than 9 percent of the note's face value at HK$30,000. Constellation will pay for the redemption.

The DBS High Notes 5, sold in Singapore in denominations between $3,000 and $5,000 each and linked to Lehman's 5.75 percent $1.25 billion bonds due in 2017, have been valued at zero, DBS said.

No Bailout

Hong Kong's Securities and Futures Commission said last month individual investors in the city hold HK$2.46 billion of structured notes issued by Constellation.

About 10,000 people in Singapore invested more than S$500 million in structured products linked to Lehman. Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong said it was ``unfortunate'' that individual investors suffered losses though the government can't be expected to bail out every investment that goes awry, the Business Times reported on Oct. 27.

``After a few years, I think similar products would come back, because people will forget about the whole thing and will try to find ways to earn more money,'' said Tang.

To contact the reporters for this story: Patricia Kuo in Hong Kong at pkuo2@bloomberg.net; Jean Chua in Singapore at jchua4@bloomberg.net

Last Updated: October 29, 2008 03:40 EDT

CCheng; October 31, 2008 1:26 PM
Anonymous said...: Summary

"Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong said it was ``unfortunate'' that individual investors suffered losses though the government can't be expected to bail out every investment that goes awry, the Business Times reported on Oct. 27."; October 31, 2008 1:43 PM
ym said...: @siewkhim..
stop being an infant..; October 31, 2008 1:45 PM
Anonymous said...: Siewkim,
what is wrong with you. You are unlike the siewkim we knew. What has happened? You have gone bongkos or what, taking on Mr. Tan. Did he hurt you or say anyhting that hurt your feeling? You have an axe to grind? You call him names, so bitter that you blasphemised other religion.
You notice that , despite your behaviour Mr. Tan has given you space to air your frustration.
Stop in the name of forgiveness.; October 31, 2008 1:52 PM
symmetrix said...: All,

I suspect siewkhim may be mentally deranged. Perhaps someone dropped him on his head when he was a baby. Poor thing.

Let's all forgive him. Give him room to vent out his frustrations. And perhaps we should stop responding to his posts. Deny him the attention he seeks, and I think his nasty comments would subside.

VSL; October 31, 2008 2:44 PM
Anonymous said...: This Siew Khim fellas is full of nonsense. He will get his retribution one day. Maybe this time round, he is just been lucky not to have invested in the products. One is never so lucky always. Only if something drastic happen, then only one can understand what others are going through now. Siew Khim fellas, don't be too "ya ya papaya". I have known people who a week ago was still around and suddenly "bye bye". Life is too short.; October 31, 2008 2:55 PM
Anonymous said...: DBS should compensate all individual investors for misrepresenting the risk of HN5 and selling them inappropriate products.; October 31, 2008 4:31 PM
Anonymous said...: Quote

"If you want your money to work for you, you have to work hard for it, too. There's no free lunch in this world."; October 31, 2008 5:30 PM
Anonymous said...: Mr Tan ignore this siew khim antics.Your deeds speak for itself. Affected investors and non-affected investor all knows you are doing a good job. I am sure if there is a Presidential election now in Spore and you are a candidate you will get the majority vote and my vote. Look where are the voices of those elected to speak out on this mis-sold structured products issue? Who will be a better person to speak out and to look after our country's monetary reserve? You have been exemplary,selfless and persistent in helping the aggrieved investors in time of need. I am sure you will rise up to the occassion if the country needs you.; October 31, 2008 5:51 PM
Raymond T said...: The turnout tomorrow could be the biggest yet!; October 31, 2008 6:40 PM
GOHCT said...: Angry HK investors protest

HONG KONG - ANGRY Hong Kong investors, some banging gongs and others waving banners, scuffled outside a bank on Friday as frustration mounted over losses tied to investments linked to failed US bank Lehman Brothers.

Several hundred investors, many of them elderly retirees, marched to eight banks which had sold Lehman structured products, including ABN Amro, Standard Chartered, Bank of China, Citic Ka Wah and DBS bank, demanding compensation for their losses.

Some investors tried to barge into a DBS bank branch on Hong Kong island, jostling with security staff who linked arms to form a human barricade.

'The banks are cheating us', shouted some investors, while others banged gongs and waved protest banners accusing the banks of misleading investors on the risks involved.

DBS said in a statement e-mailed to Reuters that a dedicated customer care centre had been set up to deal with concerns.

'DBS Bank (Hong Kong) Limited is deeply concerned about the anxiety our customers are experiencing on this matter', a spokesman said in the statement.

'Every customer is important to us and in cases where our standards are not met, DBS will not hesitate to make compensation', she said.

One female investor burst into tears and apparently fainted outside a Standard Chartered bank branch, television pictures showed.

Local media reports say tens of thousands of Hong Kong investors had bought Lehman-issued and referenced credit-linked notes, called mini-bonds, worth HK$15.6 billion (S$2.96 billion).

DBS said earlier this week that most of the notes were worthless, provoking the investor backlash.

Investors in Singapore and Indonesia have also hit the streets in protest, expressing outrage that the failed products they bought were actually complex derivatives.; October 31, 2008 8:08 PM
GOHCT said...: HK watchdog may sue banks

Fri, Oct 31, 2008
AFP

HONG KONG - HONG Kong's Consumer Council said on Friday it was considering suing banks which allegedly mis-sold mini-bonds backed by failed US investment bank Lehman Brothers as risk-free investments.

The 50 cases the council was considering backing mostly concerned vulnerable elderly people who said their banks had not fully explained to them the risks involved when selling them the mini-bonds, a spokesman for the council said.

The complainants in the cases, which involved 14 banks, had invested between HK$100,000 and HK$2 million (S$18,991 and S$379,826) in the controversial financial products.

'We will continue our vetting to identify representative cases for legal action,' the spokesman told AFP.

'We now have HK$16 million in our legal action fund. But the government has promised that it will give us unlimited financial support once we have identified cases with good grounds,' she said.

Mr Johannes Chan, chairman of the council's legal action fund, told the South China Morning Post that their focus on elderly and poorly educated investors would give them a higher chance of success in court.

'It's easier to establish that their trust has been abused or that they have been misled than (to make the same case for), say, someone who has a university education and has invested for years.'

Despite their name, the mini-bonds are complex financial products linked to a bundle of derivatives backed by Lehman, and their value plummeted after the investment bank collapsed in Sept.

The council said in a statement that it had received 3,638 complaints and 1,388 enquiries from investors.

Meanwhile, more than 100 investors protested outside the Hong Kong Monetary Authority, the city's de facto central bank, before marching to individual banks to demand a full refund of their investment on Friday morning.

Individual banks, including the Bank of China (Hong Kong), have started to negotiate compensation deals with customers. But many of the cases remained left out as gathering evidence to prove mis-selling could be difficult.

All the banks have agreed to adopt a government proposal for them to buy back the products from customers at their current market value but the move failed to pacify investors who said they would only get back a portion of their investment.; October 31, 2008 8:10 PM
symmetrix said...: All,

Amidst all this unhappiness about CLS products, here is some humour to cheer us up. Many of these "definitions" explain the global financial crisis.

CEO --Chief Embezzlement Officer

CFO-- Corporate Fraud Officer

BULL MARKET -- A random market movement causing an investor to mistake himself for a financial genius

BEAR MARKET -- A 6 to 18-month period when the kids get no allowance ; the wife gets no jewelry, and the husband gets no sex

VALUE INVESTING -- The art of buying low and selling lower

P/E RATIO -- The percentage of investors wetting their pants as the market keeps crashing

BROKER -- What my broker has made me

STANDARD & POOR -- Your life in a nutshell

STOCK ANALYST -- Idiot who just downgraded your stock

STOCK SPLIT -- When your ex-wife and her lawyer split your assets equally between themselves

FINANCIAL PLANNER -- A guy whose phone has just been disconnected

MARKET CORRECTION -- The day after you buy stocks

CASH FLOW -- The movement your money makes as it disappears down the toilet

YAHOO -- What you yell after selling it to some poor sucker for $240 per share

WINDOWS -- What you jump out of when you're the sucker who bought Yahoo @ $240 per share

INSTITUTIONAL INVESTOR -- Past year investor who's now locked up in a nuthouse

PROFIT -- An archaic word no longer in use.

VSL; October 31, 2008 8:23 PM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous Anonymous said...Quote

"If you want your money to work for you, you have to work hard for it, too. There's no free lunch in this world."

5:30 PM

You are right. But there are many people in this world who are joying their free lunch using our hard-earned money, e.g., the senior managements of Lehman Brothers and other Wall Street firms.

JC; October 31, 2008 8:46 PM
Anonymous said...: Mr Tan suspects this Siew Khim to be from NTUC Income. I think he is from the management in NTUC Income. This clearly shows that he is really irritated by what Mr Tan is doing. Perhaps his ricebowl has been hurt. Perhaps he is not able to con people because Mr Tan has exposed his antics.; October 31, 2008 9:57 PM
Anonymous said...: "All Hong Kong banks have agreed to buy back Lehman minibonds at market value."

think the local are offering something like 9% of value?..; November 01, 2008 12:05 AM
Anonymous said...: The Hong Kong consumer watchdog is suing the banks on behalf of some investors. The government is providing financial support to the body.It will be very interesting and good test case; November 01, 2008 12:39 AM
Anonymous said...: Siew Khim, Siew Khim ...

Why are you hiding behind a girl's name here and dare not turn up at Speakers' Corner to show your real face despite our invitation ? Is it because you are a BIG Coward ?? Or because you have no friends and hence have nothing better to do other than to open your dirty mouth & write trash ? Or because you just escaped from Woodbridge ?

We dare you to come to Speakers' Corner this Sat. !!! Show us your guts !!!; November 01, 2008 1:43 AM
ph he said...: 11:53
Yes, I would NEVER buy such product if I have been told that - you will lose all your money! Not even if the return is 10%, 15%!! No way!!!!! Very honest because I know SOMEONE is watching me!!!!!!!!!; November 01, 2008 2:42 AM
ph he said...: 12:01
Pinnacle Series - you are definitely right! Although they have not yet collapsed, it is a time bomb and will explode sooner than later! It is not quite possible to wait till maturity!! MAS should act immediately and 'remove' them off the shelf, like the Chinese baby milk, before it KILLS!!!!!!!!!!; November 01, 2008 3:03 AM
Anonymous said...: Mr. Tan Kin Lian

This is the 4th time investors meet you at HL speaker corner today .

Your grandchild was born during your 1st speech. The baby is celebrating the full- month soon.

Sincerely wish you & yr family good health and good luck; November 01, 2008 7:09 AM
Anonymous said...: Dear Mr Tan
Just a suggestion. Maybe all investors could put up a proposal to our dear President, PM, MM, SM (Chairman MAS - since he talks a lot and no firm action), FIs, Independant representatives to hold a combined meeting with all affected investors and addressed the issues wholistically rather than now the FIs are interviewing investors individually and dividing the group. The investors need a group decisions by FIs rather than this FI give this while the other does not. Venue for such place - there are many, cost to be borned by FIs. This will see whether the FIs and MAS are really serious in solving this problem together. DBS wait till year end? Why? Is it because they want this year's accounts to look good? The delay tactics MAS and FIs are 'playing' is to see who can last longer. Should imposed pressure, if not the investors set a date, time and venue for the meeting, say each pay eg $10 and 'demand' their presence. Investors need to imposed pressure.; November 01, 2008 7:44 AM
Anonymous said...: Let's all go to the Speaker's Corner today - rain or shine! We need to keep up the pressure and not let our presence and voice die down.

Support Mr Tan as he has supported us all this while. KSH; November 01, 2008 9:33 AM
Anonymous said...: DBS is tarnishing the Singapore brand of integrity. I think DBS management should be punished for releasing these toxic investment products to the investors. Those relationship managers who are new and perhaps fresh graduates eager to rise to the world, just followed the management's instructions. Yes, DBS senior managements should be reprimanded and punished especially the consumer head.; November 01, 2008 9:44 AM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mr. Tan Kin Lian

This is the 4th time investors meet you at HL speaker corner today .

Your grandchild was born during your 1st speech. The baby is celebrating the full- month soon.

Sincerely wish you & yr family good health and good luck

7:09 AM

wow sorry wasnt aware that

Some congratulations is in order!; November 01, 2008 11:16 AM
Unknown said...: I have just read Goh Meng Seng's write up on Minibonds (Oct 27) and got a better understanding of what it is all about.

If the write up corectly sums up this whole minibond debacle (notwithstanding the comment made by CK Lim on the flaw in Mr Goh's write-up), then as an investor who has put in a six figure amount in these minobonds, I am utterly disallusioned by our regulatory authorities and connot comprehend how they could have allowed such a product to be marketed to the people of Singapore, be they vulnerable or not vulnerable.

I sincerely believe that the regulatory authorities should simply admit their mistake and come out clean to compensate all parties involved.

The regulatory authorities should not worry about whether doing such a thing would have far reaching implications in future i.e. that should a similar situation arise in the future, the people of Singapore will again look to the regulatory authorities for compensation. I believe such a similar situtation will not or will never arise again (may be in another 50 or 100 years) as the people of Singapore have definitely wised up to such investemnt products i.e. they are not about to be "con" again with sweet talking RMs or by whatever name they will be called in future.

Concerned Investor; November 01, 2008 11:27 AM
siewkhim said...: Guys,

Now you see your Lord and saviour the great Tan Kin Lian who is going to perform his magic spells to get out of your shity situations.

No, you will only get what you should get had not Kin Lian suddenly appeared like the spirit from heaven. He gets all the limelight and the glamour on people misery and misfortune. At the opportune moment at the 11th hour he will do a hat trick and throw i the towel at the 11th hour citing some big names just like what he did during NTUC Income's AGM bonus cut issue.

You will see what you get. I have been fooled once by him, not again.

Ha Ha you people have already been made of fool.; November 01, 2008 11:48 AM
Anonymous said...: At this point in time, even if MAS does not remove structured products, I don't think it will sell. After all these hoo-haa and bad experience, it will take a real mental retard to buy any structured products from these so-called (and completely misnamed/ mistitled) investment counsellors/ relationship managers.

Why are the banks delaying the compensation? Is it b'cos it is so close to bonus time and the CEOs care more about their own bonus than hard-earned savings of poor ah pehs/ ah sohs?; November 01, 2008 12:16 PM
Anonymous said...: Singh,

In future, suggest that all the Financial Instituitions launch whatever products at Speakers Corner first and get the critics in to vett their products before ever launching for SALE!
Surely this is what I call "FAIR PLAY" and buyers beware at the end of the day!; November 01, 2008 1:16 PM
Anonymous said...: Hi Mr Tan,

The field report and videos of your speech today have been uploaded to youtube.

Please publish on your blog for your readers to view:

“I think from what I hear, many investors going to complain to the financial institutions and many cases come back and the financial institutions say ‘no case’. If it is going to be like that, then I think we better spend $120 to file a statutory declaration.”

“Some of you go to my blog, you can also get a complaint form from my blog, can download and print out yourself.”

“I also suggest all the groups depending which financial institutions you buy from sign a lettter asking the financial institutions top management for a meeting.”

Watch the video of Mr Tan Kin Lian's speech here:

Part 1: http://wayangparty.com/2008/11/01/mr-tan-kin-lians-speech-at-hong-lim-park-1-november-2008-part-1/

Part 2: http://wayangparty.com/2008/11/01/mr-tan-kin-lians-speech-at-hong-lim-park-on-1-nov-2008-part-2/

Pls forward the URLs to everybody you know.; November 01, 2008 8:48 PM
GOHCT said...: First, it was baby milk formula. Then, dairy-based products from yogurt to chocolate.

Now, chicken eggs have been contaminated with melamine, and an admission by state-run media that the industrial chemical is regularly added to animal feed in China is fueling fears the problem could be more widespread, affecting fish, meat and who knows what else.

Who fault,

1) Is babies fault to drink Milk
2) Is our fault, because we need to eat.

This have been uncovered for many many years until some serious happened.

Is the same thing as Lehman. Why is this allowed to sold in many countries in the very first place.; November 02, 2008 3:58 PM
Anonymous said...: I guess we all should reduce the amount of processed food. Don't know wat they add to the food just to make profit. Likewise, banks are adding more and more dubious investment products just to make profits. Mdm Ng is right, the former DBS bank CEO got $5 to $7 million of dollars per year. Is it fair? Maybe he got those money from these toxic investment products which go bonker now. Should ask tat jackson tai to pay back. They should stop selling these investments. sick of seeing their advertisement now. dbs just need to do the right thing.; November 02, 2008 7:12 PM

Saturday, November 01, 2008

Speaker's Corner - 1 Nov 2008 5 to 7 pm

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