Tan Kin Lian's Blog: Petition to PM on credit linked notes (7)

Friday, August 14, 2009

Petition to PM on credit linked notes (7)

Petition.

Signatures as at 1 August: 650

The signing of the online petition has slowed down during the past weeks. An average of 10 people sign each day.

With the recent decision by Great Eastern Life to buy back their structured products, there is some hope of getting the banks and financial institutions to adopt the same settlement given in Hong Kong.

I urge all investors to put in a renewed effort to get more people to sign the petition and reach the target of 1,000 signatures.

Update as at 9 August: 716 signatures (average of 10 per day)

111 comments:

Anonymous said...: In HK a sec broker set a very high benchmark by giving 100% refund. Then other banks follows by giving 60-70%.

Now in spore, GE set a very high bench mark by giving 100% refund. See who is th next one to follow.
GEL, we are pround of you. We don't feel so bad now as compare to HK.
Hope others can follows so we won't loss out to HK. We count on you. Pl don't disapoint us.; August 01, 2009 7:45 PM
Anonymous said...: MAS must come out with a statement i.e. support such action, praise or something. They cannot just sit and keep quiet. To me, I want to know what's their involvement. If no involvement, then I take it as status quo i.e. they are useless and don't deserve my vote during election day because MAS = Govt.; August 01, 2009 10:01 PM
Anonymous said...: A leader is to lead, whether u are good or bad leader.

GEL, we are proud of you. You have showed the way, and have showed your courage.
Hope others will follow suit.; August 01, 2009 11:07 PM
Anonymous said...: It's a numbers game. GEL had 17,000 unhappy clients.

It had to do something. Besides the board are people of honour.

Based on complaints, 10 FIs between them have 5,000 unhappy customers. And even if 2000 investors sign the petition, that is only 2000 people spread out among 10 FIs. No brainer not to compensate.

Investors got to mobilise open public support to make FIs be afraid.

Investors in each FI asks FI customers to email, write in to FI asking FI to compensate investors.

Now if a FI receives 10,000 such letters or emils, it would think twice.

Of course there are logistical and otherissues but these can be overcome.

But then all investors want to do is sign petitions organised by non-investor, and think that that is enough.; August 02, 2009 6:39 AM
Anonymous said...: The amt paid out by GEL (594 millions) is more than all the other FIs combined. (correct me if i am wrong).
Not many people complain to GEL, yet GEL compensate 100%.
So many complained to FIs, yet many receive 0-20%, where is the snese of proportion?

MB & PN holders alao partly to blame, because many of them did not even complain,
partly may be because they are ignorance.; August 02, 2009 9:22 AM
Anonymous said...: "Based on complaints, 10 FIs between them have 5,000 unhappy customers. And even if 2000 investors sign the petition, that is only 2000 people spread out among 10 FIs."

The trouble is many of them did not complain, but just suffer in silence. May be they are ignorance.

May be their freinds/relatives should help them.; August 02, 2009 9:35 AM
Anonymous said...: I am surprised & touched by GE's initiative but will it set a precedent for other 'risky' ILPs?; August 02, 2009 11:09 AM
Anonymous said...: The caring gesture of GEL on the 100% buy back of structured notes gains highest respact and praise from all S'prean. Its reputation will definitely raise to the highest level as compare to the other FIs. Who will trust them any more if they tried all means to cheat you and dump you like dirt when thing goes wrong?
We cannot leave the toxic products issue in the hands of MAS, FIs and some top leaders because they were already joint hand in defending their
reputation and interest. Retail investors must realize that we have to put in a fierse battle and tackle these heartless institutes and MAS.
I suggest we adopt some effective approaches in the coming months:
1.Publicize the crux of the issue and let people
know the whole truth.
2.Gorify the GEL and HK buy back models so to embaress the selfish FIs and let the protector of FIs--MAS and leaders feel malu.
3.Set up a public fund to do all necessary publicizing work.; August 02, 2009 11:57 AM
Anonymous said...: Hope the 22 Aug 09 turnout at Hong Lim will surpass all previous turnouts.

I also pray for the weather to be fine on that day. Otherwise many people may get sick if they are drenched.; August 02, 2009 1:40 PM
Anonymous said...: we now have a bad govt who do nothing to help people got cheated by FIs thr selling toxic products.

Govt have overly protected the FIs or the rich at the expense of the ordinary people needed help.

Worse, they have installed CCTV at Hong Lim Park to deter people to make protest to seek justice.

Even the leadership in Great Eastern has shown to be more trusted than the govt. This govt needs to do some real meaningful work and not the wayang on this issue. It is an insult to many people to say the FIs has already been punished severely by not allowing them to sell similar products for a short period. Where is justice/democracy in the nation?? How to tell people we are together as one people?? As National Day is approaching....I feel sad the direction the nation is moving.; August 02, 2009 4:26 PM
Anonymous said...: Terminate your account with the FIs. This is one way to show your displeasure. Don't take up any loan or trade with thru broking houses.Come 22 Aug bring your spouse and family. Fill the field with angry investors.; August 02, 2009 6:20 PM
Anonymous said...: Don't wait for 22 Aug 09. Flood their server with your email. Write to the FA, Fund mgr and their director. Tell them GE is responsible and this is the way of putting customer interest the top priority. Selling a toxic product is wrong, not training FA properly is wrong, not checking customers' risk profile is wrong so why keep prolonging this painful journey......; August 02, 2009 6:28 PM
Anonymous said...: I will like to draw everyone's attention to this comment made in another part of TKL's blog. Interesting read.

http://tankinlian.blogspot.com/2009/07/fisca-website.html#comments; August 02, 2009 7:04 PM
Anonymous said...: I will be very angry if people who bought from GE get compensated full while the rest of the FI who sold similar toxic product get away without any compensation. How can MAS allow such unfair treatment and still claim they are handling this in a fair manner?; August 03, 2009 8:55 AM
Anonymous said...: MAS can BECAUSE people who earns millions a year do not feel or understand the pain of other people who lost $20,000 in MB especially when the "High risk high return" people signed on the dotted lines of a product which should not be in Sgp in the first place.

Always talk about being first, pay top $ but when comes to HK SFC succeeded in helping MB investors [at lower monthly salary], MAS said nothing and I think it has also become nothing to us now.

MAS -- Minibond Anti-Supporter; August 03, 2009 10:02 AM
Anonymous said...: Somehow, after the annoucement of HK SFC successfully negotiated compensation on the reasons of mis-selling or mis-rep, all the Ministers speech sounded hollow. Unity, Terrorist, 10 perils of success, religion etc.

Once you don't trust an organization [MAS) after many rounds of hoping they do something right, you also don't trust the people running it.

Unfortunately, the people running it are Ministers so trust vanishes.

Then looking at DBS, some problem. Old men and old Women asking their money back at the entrance. DBS is connected to Govt so trust vanishes.

So in the end, I got myself to blame for trusting the banks, securities houses and most of all, the govt.

Anyway, I don't expect Govt people to read Tan Kian Lian site as to them, the truth hurts. They will just stick with their TC, grassroots and let them swell up their ego and carry on the old ways, compare olden days and now then ask for more Ministers pay, foreign talent etc. The same old issues while MB investors continue to work things out on their own.....; August 03, 2009 10:30 AM
Anonymous said...: If you support what Mr. Tan is doing for you and/or your relatives and friends, the very least you can/must do is to sign the petition immediately (click the link at the top of this page now). If you have friends or relatives who are not aware of the petition, please advise them accordingly. The little effort you put in could turn out to be the greatest gift you can ever give to anyone. The more the people sign the petition, the more the chances of us getting our money back!

If you are one of those who think that there should be enough people signing it and it won't make a different with or without you, let me tell you that such selfish mentality is extremely damaging to this kind of exercise and I would say that you don't deserve getting any of your money back. A 1000 signatures would be a powerful force, but if we can get 10,000 signatures, the effect would be 100 times more powerful! I trust you would do your fair share, wouldn't you?

Best Regards,; August 03, 2009 12:01 PM
Anonymous said...: "Stand Up for Spore"-- these words makes we want to throw out. When innocent investors are in trouble and crying for help and justice they asked to stand on your own feet even though the FIs are found to be mis-selling the products. Sucks !; August 03, 2009 12:23 PM
Anonymous said...: The petition is to go after the FI's who had cheated our money and to seek the help of our PM. Having our name in the petition would show that we are determined to seek justice and wouldn't not simply accept those one-sided offers given out by the FI's (except GE) so far.

I believe that it is better to have our name in the petition as it shows that we are one of those who would seek justice as a group. The FI's are likely to treat us with more respect.; August 03, 2009 12:37 PM
Anonymous said...: Hi,

I have found an interesting article that is somehow relevant to the saga that we are going thro' :

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/29127316/the_great_american_bubble_machine

(I typed in the link above manually as there is not cut & paste function here, if the link does not work, just google : "the great american bubble machine" you will find the article.)

Read especially "Bubble #3", where AIG, Lehman Brothers, Bear Sterns their names are mentioned.

I am not a expert in this area, the whole "story" sounds very scary to a layman ...

God Bless
World Peace; August 03, 2009 1:39 PM
Anonymous said...: Let's gives our MAS some light moments to remember us by:-

MAS: Good report, well done, your salary is safe

MAS: We are LOST when we think of you.

MAS: We grew up together, you lost your way. Now, you only know how to please your boss.

MAS: Propose new name --> NMP (Not My Problem)

MAS: Did you tell your parents what you have done to 10,000 investors?

MAS: New slogon: Protect business ignore Singaporeans.

MAS: Must Action Slowly [7 mths to do a good-for-nothing report]

MAS: Was your parent part a MB investors? Shame on you.

Anymore?; August 03, 2009 2:31 PM
Anonymous said...: New name--- MASS.; August 03, 2009 3:55 PM
Anonymous said...: New name--- M-ASS or MESS!; August 03, 2009 4:16 PM
Anonymous said...: MAS issued just one single statement when Great Eastern announced their decision to buy back the GreatLink Choice Product from 18,000 customers. "MAS welcomes efforts by financial institutions to take appropriate steps to maintain the trust and confidence of their customers based on their own commercial considerations." Many possible conclusions that can be drawn from this very brief statement. Firstly is this all that they have to say as the controlling authority when such a significant event takes place? MAS such a big, powerful organisation, issue 1 little miserable statement! Why? Are they concerned that if they say more than 1 sentence, they will be bashed up again. Better say as little as possible and hide? Is that MAS's strategy? So MAS "welcomes" this. It means if banks do this it is good, if they don't, we also don't mind. The statement also says "...based on their own commercial consideration." So is this to be read as: MAS is washing its hands over this matter. Leave us out of it. It is up to the bank's "commercial consideration" and you unfortunate customers, good luck to you. Not my problem any more. So MAS only requires the bank to make their decision based on their bottom line & nothing else. Could MAS not have included, "based on the banks commercial consideration AND CORPORATE SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY." What about the bank's role as a corporate citizen? What about the issue of integrity, fairness, justice to its customers? Does the MAS not care if the banks operate without justice, fairness and integrity. Does it not care if the banks decide to offer Hong Kongers fair compensation and tell the Singaporean customers "too bad, I am not going to offer you the same compensation as the Hong Kongers. What what if it is blatantly unfair and unjust? What can you do to me? Your governing authority does not give two hoots, so what can you do to me?; August 03, 2009 4:24 PM
Anonymous said...: Hopefully MAS would value integrity, fairness and justice someday. Judging from the difference between HK and Spore, it's obvious that HK people got a fairer deal as a result of pressure from the activists and HK government, who see a need to maintain those moral values in their society. If we MAS can't help us, our only hope is to act collectively as a group. Signing the petition would be a step forward towards a more just resolution.

Good Luck to All.; August 03, 2009 5:03 PM
Anonymous said...: I believe that as "consumers" we have the means and the power to do more than just sign petition. With the Internet we have the means to tell the world the facts about how the banks involved have treated us unfairly and acted without integrity. We can leverage the Internet to tell our story. Deputy Chairman said that the ban has "tarnished" the banks reputation. If the banks do not play fair, we must lay down all facts so that all the existing and potential customers can decide for themselves if these are banks they want to do business with. The beauty is that with Google, it is easy for anyone to find this permanent record of the banks'wrong doings. Of course we must have integrity ourselves and put down the facts honestly in order for us to be believable.; August 03, 2009 6:36 PM
Anonymous said...: "Deputy Chairman said that the ban has "tarnished" the banks reputation."

He did not realize that when he pointed his index finger at the 10 FIs, his last 3 fingers were pointing at HIMSELF.

It means --> MAS is 3 times more guilty than the 10 FIs.; August 03, 2009 7:33 PM
Anonymous said...: Well done - Great Eastern!
Shame on you - MAS !!
Money suckers that have no integrity - UOB Kay Hian !!!; August 03, 2009 8:02 PM
Anonymous said...: GE has certainly won my heart. My future investments will certainly go to you.; August 03, 2009 8:03 PM
Anonymous said...: Hi, I am a victim of Lehman Brother Minibond note. I bought the note with a FI and there was no risk assessment done on me by the RM, I bought the product within less than half an hour as I were told that it was a low risk product. I did a risk assessment with another bank before buying minibond, and i were categoried by the other bank as conservative investor. Is the bank which sold me the minibond negligence? Do I have a case to fight for my full invested amount?; August 03, 2009 8:17 PM
Anonymous said...: Wow!! GEL is so nice & caring.
They just ask you "Do you want back your money".
If answer is yes, they will process for you.
If your answer is no, so be it.
Thank you GEL. We are proud of you.

For the other FIs, You hve to beg them for you money back.

Each time, they (Esp Sec Fs) would reply that no need to compensate yuo bec your evidence is not enough.
You burn mid-night oil for another 3-4 months, then come the same answers.; August 03, 2009 8:23 PM
Anonymous said...: From the past few months we can draw a conclusionas below:
1.The 3 great power house-- FIs,MAS and some top leaders are now combined as a evil force (狼狈为奸)to fight against the innocent people who suffered from the cheating syndicates. This evil force only care for their own interest and profit. Don't expect any one of them be fair to your accusations.
2.The cheating syndicates and its protectors
definitely know that they had committed errors and had breached the FAA. If they were exposed by their own gang members,the whole group will be embarrassed and lose face.Worst of all, our neighbors will scorn and laugh at them. Why are they so stupid!
3.Justice and fairness? Go to fly kite.It is not their business.They are more concerned with pay rise and maintaining the highest pay govt leaders in the world.; August 03, 2009 8:33 PM
Anonymous said...: MAS pls wake up ! Your action and words are a reflection of the garmen. Many many investors are very bitter and angry and this will not go away as it runs deep into affected families. There will be political cost to this eventually.; August 04, 2009 8:49 AM
Anonymous said...: I agree GE is the only financial institution that investors should trust now. Not MAS, DBS, UOB, etc as these guys clearly did not show any concern for investors by their action.; August 04, 2009 12:02 PM
Anonymous said...: Mr Tan Kin lian
could you remove the post (spam) written in chinese above. It is an advertisement for housing care in taiwan!! i wonder how it got approved. Ps> you can delete this post too.; August 04, 2009 3:07 PM
Anonymous said...: Hong Leong Finance sold Pinnacles Notes 9. The brochure stated only the big Singapore Blue Chips, HK and Australia blue chips. I have specifically asked to FA to confirm that there is no US linked companies. He misled me into believing that there is no exposure. I am a victim. Recently IHong Leong sent me a letter that require me not to divulge to anyone or contest the case. Compensation is only 25% of my investment sum. I have no other recourse and therefore accepted the cheque.; August 04, 2009 3:32 PM
Anonymous said...: I do not trust the bank, unit trust, bonds or stock market anymore. The saftest bet is on property, its something physical which you can see and touch, even in bad time, you still can rent it out though the rate may not be good. But is still better than giving your hard earned money to these greedy bankers. No wonder now every body is rushing to buy property.; August 04, 2009 3:44 PM
Anonymous said...: If the government was really sincere to help the tormented investors, just come out a statement to urge the financial instituitions to follow suit. But it can't as the DBS has to fork out a lot of cash and that is equivalent coming out from the government' pocket, you think that is possible?; August 04, 2009 3:51 PM
Anonymous said...: Mr. Tan, thank you for having this blog and putting out informative replies for all of us to read and learn. Without it, I don't know where I can vent my anger and still have a chance for the NO GOOD MAS/Govt to read it.

Appreciate your time and dedication. Thank you.; August 04, 2009 8:38 PM
Anonymous said...: For GLC, the agents have to return their commissions.
For mini bomb and pinnicle, some agents specialised inselling these risky products only,e.g...............

If they are made to return their commissions, it would give them a lesson so that they would not dare to sell such products to make people suffer again.

For the agents, they would only loss their commissions, at least they would understand a little bit what is it like to loss the entire principal. They would undetstand better how painful it could be to loss the entire principal.
The agents should be made to return their "ill gotten" commissions.; August 04, 2009 9:43 PM
Anonymous said...: It is not easy to get so many to sign.
Those who have received compensation would say bye-bye.; August 05, 2009 7:19 AM
Anonymous said...: I think many of the agents who sold the products didn't know how toxic the products were either. The evils are those at the higher management who knowingly pushed them to sell such worthless product. The worst was DBS who created their own HN5!; August 05, 2009 8:40 AM
Anonymous said...: I disagree that Anon 7:19AM who felt that "Those who have received compensation would say bye-bye". On the contrary, I think they know better how they were cheated and are likely to help those who are still struggling to get their money back.; August 05, 2009 8:45 AM
Anonymous said...: See Today's paper page 10 by Conrad Raj.

Minister "Automatic" Lim:

"investigation findings do not support an across the board general settlement for all investors, irrespective of their individual circumstances."

I guess we should put up a statement

"Minister "Automatic" Lim, your action has tarnished the name of MAS, thus we do not support your millions dollar salary as the performance is only worth $24,000 a year at best. Any educated person can put out a statement like yours while you have the distinction of confusing us. First you said FIs were wrong then you ban them from selling something that is nothing now. Then you leave the MB heartlanders to find their own solution.

Good work, this is worth $24,000 a year at best.

Singporean voter; August 05, 2009 9:04 AM
Anonymous said...: "Kudos to women but low birth rate worries PM"

I think he should be more worried about getting 49.9% votes in the next election. A real case of lower paid regulators achieving 60%-70% refund to HK MB heartlanders which realized the MB people are the victims.

Same problem different result.

Must be too highly paid until cannot feel the pain of heartlanders even though proven they were victimized.

Don't you feel shameful now and whenever you give speech about helping the weak and poor?; August 05, 2009 9:24 AM
Anonymous said...: It is high time to ask the MAS leadership to have their own salary reduce by at least 70%. They have low competancy and even worse no courage to face up to the mistakes made in the approval of toxic products. MAS is a waste of taxpayer money when we compared with that of HK regulator has achieved.; August 05, 2009 9:33 AM
Anonymous said...: Since the HK accross the board compensation model and GFL 100% buy back message run over
all SG, the conbined evil force were in panic and tried to give some radiculus, absurd and crooked reasons why they can't do so. Pl read the two arguments:
1.FIs spokmen--DBS Mr Ranju Raju's argument:
GEL product belongs to investment-linked insurrance product whereas DBS HN is an investment product.No matter how you differciate the twos in name, they are all belong to structured financial product. They are all come under the category of "toxic" financial product.Don't try to puzzle people with such low class tactic. People are not so stupid as they think so.
2.MAS spokmen Minister said:"investigation findings do not suport an across-the -board general settlement for all investors, irrespective of their individual circumstance".
They tried to deny the merit and effective settlement method by the authority of HK, and also want to save face as to why they cannot take action to deal with those committed crime in order to protect the interest of FIs as well as MAS interest.
Now every one should understand that we give them high pay and they don't care for our interest but to care for their own interest. Can we toterat this kind of evil force existing in SG?; August 05, 2009 10:34 AM
Anonymous said...: I have been itching to put my name on this petition, but I am not one of those affected.

(I have put my name for Mr Tan to run for public office, I have signed up FiSCA, anything to create another creditable voice)

Those affected please dont take this laying down... stand up and be counted.

I am so sad with our govererment's approach......; August 05, 2009 10:38 AM
Anonymous said...: Great eastern share price grown up after compensation.
It pays to compensate.; August 05, 2009 11:09 AM
Anonymous said...: Today's headlines in the Business Times: "ANZ picks up RBS assets for a song to serenade S'pore". I wonder if RBS/ABN AMRO has all along not intended to play fair knowing that they are going to sell off it's operation. Has our MAS been taken and played for a fool by RBS? Will ANZ after buying over RBS/ABN AMRO's operation play fair or take the position that that was RBS/ABN AMRO's legacy problem, nothing to do with us. MAS has not done anything to query ABN AMRO or anything at all to help Singaporean investors. It is as if they are just a bystander. Not my problem - see no evil, hear no evil, do nothing.

In the Business Times editorial today titled "GE Life's PR coup sets the Standard", the concluding sentence was "Above all, GE Life's decision to do well by its customers relects an understanding of that most fundamental of values that all companies need to project, but especially those in the financial industry, and that value is trust.". Well said but none of the FIs involved in the Minibond episode is not doing anything to gain back the trust they have lost. And unfortunately, in this whole episode, MAS is the biggest loser in the trust department as far as investors are concerned.; August 05, 2009 1:11 PM
Anonymous said...: I agree, MAS is a big loser in this whole Minibond fiasco. This incident allows sporean to realise government, despite its justification for big pay check, is incompetent.; August 05, 2009 4:42 PM
Anonymous said...: Before jumping in to praise GE please ponder on these questions.
Why did the customers not informed of the risks and the nature of the products?
Why did the insurance agents sell wihtout disclosing the risk of the products?
How come Ah Peks and old folks who work as sweepers and cleaners at Mcdonald got into buying the GLC? Did these old folks buy because they knew about the product? How come the fact finding forms stated that these old folks asked for product advice only and NOT other advice? This is to say these old folks are savvy investors and they knew waht they were getting into and therefore required only product advice.
WOW!!! the cleaners were so clever. They needed only product advice. or was it so? Or because the agents wanted to dodge fact finding and pushed these inappropriate products to them wihout having to justify it? Or the agents only wanted to earn the commission quick? Returning the commission is too lenient. They should be punished more severely. Heads must roll. Is GE trying to lessen the severity of the crime?
We must not let GE and their agents get away with this kind of shoddy and unethical practice.I am sure it is the same other insurance PRODUCTS THEY SOLD TO THEIR CLIENTS, product peddling and dumping.
MAS must stepp up its effort to eradicate this unethical practice.
What GE did is NOT as generous as you think.They did it to cover their ass and also the agents' ass. Both were in the wrong . Both committed a crime against their customers. It is not as simple . it is more than meets the eyes. MAS mustn't let it go without an investigation.In the insurance industry mis-selling and unethical practice is blatant and rampant. It is of daily occurrence. It is get rich quick business.Look at the commission and you know waht I mean. 2.5% commission is obscene.
MAS, please arrest them before the industry is turned into a mine field and many ordinary lives ruined by these people.Stop them.
Remove the commission which is the root of all evils.Make the agents perform the fact finding.Make them responsible for the advice and recommendation.Fine them heavily if they breach section 27 of the FAA.

The Watchman; August 05, 2009 7:50 PM
Anonymous said...: imagine......
let fast forward the clock 10 year ahead.
i will be 53 then .
are we still as angry with MAS , FI & government as today ?
will we still thumb up Hong Kong's SFC 60/70% every-one-applaud compensation solution ?
will we still thumb up to the Hong Kong's citizen for their vocal , teamwork & action
or
WE , THE SINGAPOREAN , JUST WHINE & EXPRESS REGRET TO OUR CHILDREN/GRANDCHILDREN.; August 05, 2009 8:19 PM
Anonymous said...: If you want MAS to investigate, go and try. People like us who were mis-sold submitted numerous petitions, wrote numerous letters to MP, written about by many newspaper and our MAS and GOVT did not even lift a finger to help. Now you are talking about asking them to investigate GE for refunding 100%. Dream on. They have more important task like focusing on writing a good economic report so that govt can convince the public on civil servants and ministers pay raise the moment our GDP turns....; August 05, 2009 9:45 PM
Anonymous said...: I stopped all business transactions with Phillip Securities because they sold me MB3.

I wish I can withdraw my deposit from banks but DBS, UOB, OCBC, Citi, Maybank etc are all involved in MB, HN or P. So can't do much but just don't buy investment product from them anymore.

This is my way of protesting against their non-action. To buy insurance product, I would go to NTUC or GE.

If there are other ways of protesting their ill treatment of Singaporean MB investors, do advise so that I can do my small part.

As for 22 Aug, I will be there and I hope it will continue as long as MB investors do not get a fair treatment similar to HK.; August 06, 2009 8:43 AM
Anonymous said...: It is clearly demonstrated by the deeds and words by MAS and the Minister that they are now one of the backing force of the cheating syndicates. Don't dream of any action from them to deal with the crime offenders--FIs.In fact, they are so shamelessly deny the conscienctious efforts of GEL and the authority of HK in offering the consummers a buy out, furhter more, they tried to puzzle people with all kinds of joking but radiculus reasons for rejecting
innocent victims' claim.
I suggest when the petition letter submitted to our PM, hoping that he will withold justice and fairness like God of justice, to attach some of the relevant documents for his reading, so that he can open his eyes and wouldn't be brainwashed by the evil force.Attached documents like:
1.Reference materials on investigations by HK authority and the actual results achieved. Reference materials on the approach by SG and its shortcomings.
2.The HK across the board compensation model and the GEL model.
3.The comments by internet readers on the issue so to let him understand the angers and frustrations of people by letting them down by those above world-class high-pay and inefficient govt officers. This will cost countless political votes if he still turn his back to people.
4.PM should consider to remove these incapable
chairmans, vice-chairman and minister from their office because their words and deeds were inappropriate and had damaged the good name of SG.; August 06, 2009 10:38 AM
Anonymous said...: With Hong Kong showing the way, now we know what is achievable is different than what our leaders have suggested to us. If we can catch up with what Hong Kong has done, guess we can consider ourselves made it too. As to how far we are behind Hong Kong, we shall see how many years would Singapore take to achieve the same. I am very grateful to Hong Kong for leading the way. Thanks Hong Kong.; August 06, 2009 11:22 AM
Anonymous said...: 10,000 angry investors x spouse x children x siblings can make a lot of different when time come to cast your votes!; August 06, 2009 12:21 PM
Anonymous said...: Three more days to our National Day, I sincerely hope that when we do our pledge-taking, our government can do some soul-searching asking whether they have done enough for our people, especially on these Lehman Brother issues! Once damage is done, even they can still win the next election and form the next government, who will respect them?; August 06, 2009 12:25 PM
Anonymous said...: Please don't think those MPs & cabinet know nothing about Minibond. If TC can lose $16 millions, what make you so sure none of our 80 MPs were not burnt?

Imagine for an entry minister drawing $128,000 per month, how is he going to make his money work harder. The answer: buy minibond since they recommend TC to buy based on the advise of a group of financial advisors.

So why none of them step out to help? Maybe birds of same feather flock together.... 10 FIs are belong to the same kind of species or once they stand out to help, they lose their credibility and golden rice bowl....So this is the kind of "look after myself" MP we have. Only through a crisis you see true colours.

Thank you Hong Kong for showing this to us.; August 06, 2009 1:20 PM
Anonymous said...: At some point in time, you have to tell yourself "The talking is over" and stop giving feedback.

Let the system fail under the weight of its own arrogance and ignorance.

And re-build again a brand new Singapore.; August 06, 2009 1:21 PM
Anonymous said...: Town councils and MPs must know that they must not be compensated by the 10 FIs due on the issue of Minibond.

If they do, they should come clean. It is unfair for us, MB investors, struggling to justify for being victimized and then on the other end, Town councils and MPs received compensation due to "curry flavour" or their political position. This is call integrity. If such things do happen, then it is only right for the MP to step down. This is also call integrity.; August 06, 2009 1:58 PM
Anonymous said...: Looks like Barclays Bank also sold high risk products to their loyal customers.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/investing/article.html?in_article_id=489239&in_page_id=166

The product was risk rated 4 out of 5. They sold the product to those wanting a safe alternative to FDs. There is a parallel to our High Notes and Minibonds. In Singapore so long as you can read, there is no hope for compensation.; August 06, 2009 3:45 PM
Anonymous said...: I just met a old army friend. He also know about TKL blog. I think with no arguments against MB investors claims at TKL blog, it goes to show the public is sympathetic to the MB investors unfair treatments by both the MAS and Govt. Guys, keep it up. Let's continue to voice your displeasure and unfair treatment of MB investors until someone, somewhere, somehow solve the problem with us.

Come to think about it, isn't it a govt job?

Oops, I forget. They did. They ask us to fight our own battle.; August 06, 2009 3:51 PM
Anonymous said...: In HK, even the rich (e.g. movie stars) are compensated.
In SG, if you can read, u would not be compensated.
Why is the logic? Any sense of proportion?
And you are required to sign those documents, those documents.
Do you have a choice.

Even if you can read, what is the point of reading? you have to sign anyway? Do u have a choice? what can u do?

And if you are unlucky and was asked to sign those "toxic disclaimer", you will not get back a signle cents?
Is it fair? What can you do?

That is why GE is so generous. We should be very grateful to GEL.; August 06, 2009 6:10 PM
Anonymous said...: Re: "Oops, I forget. They did. They ask us to fight our own battle."

In other words, the fighting for our rights here is encouraged by the government. When the battle is won eventually, we shall give our dearest government/MAS the CHEERS that they deserved.; August 06, 2009 7:17 PM
Anonymous said...: Hi 7:17pm,

I believe the govt wants to generate business for the legal industry. So far only the HN5 group is suing DBS, what happen to the Minibond group?

The govt wants us to fight , why we still don't fight?; August 06, 2009 11:22 PM
Anonymous said...: "" wants us to fight , why we still don't fight?""

When people want u to fight, don't fight.
When people don't want u to fight, may be that is the time to fight.

Think on yr own feet.; August 07, 2009 7:14 AM
Anonymous said...: "The govt wants us to fight, why we still don't fight?"

No Money. With money problem, Govt hope majority of the retail investors will give up.

DBS HN lawyer fee is a flat fee while IMAG is 4+4% of the investment amount. If you are retired and put your whole life saving in MB e.g. $400,000, the fee is $32,000 or Miag. $16,000 for the fee and $16,000 on sinking fund. No guarrantee lawyer will not ask for more. At this moment, this retiree is already living in a hand-to-mouth situation with a chronically sicked mother living in a HDB flat. Rich people like MPs, MPs' wife who have invested in MB can write it off and not talk about it because they are too highly paid by tax payers. Again, I am one of the sucker who pay them through my income tax.

Where is the justice? Now the wayang has started maybe because of the coming election. With more intense wayang about how great they are, we, the MB investors will be forgotten and this will just be another day in Singapore. Only thing I can think of is Hong Lim Park gathering to keep the issue alive. With the installation of cameras at Hong Lim Park, what will they think of next?

Personally, I think all the seats in the coming election will be contested by the educated, middle age group as they have nothing to lose since they are already so out-of-job and swindled of the by the FIs.

The MAS/Govt has handled this episode badly and they know it. Maybe they are hoping their propaganda machine will reverse it or the success of liquidation in USA will save the day.; August 07, 2009 8:20 AM
Anonymous said...: I hope PM Lee will finally show the way and get the FI to compensate us victims. I have lost trust with MAS and many ministers, and am watching what PM Lee will do.; August 07, 2009 8:25 AM
Anonymous said...: "A Quiet Rebel called Goh Chok Tong"

If the election has yet to be decided, why this aritcle?

Maybe another article soon "The biography of MAS chairman and MAS Deputy chairman"

Then another "How MAS successfully became the talking point of Singaporeans"

Take a Helicopter view, it maybe just a promotion of the show titled "ELECTION" or "Reputation Recovery In Full Swing".; August 07, 2009 8:30 AM
Anonymous said...: YOU guys should push forward the gathering around the time when National Day is on to show your displeasure. No need to give face to the govt.; August 07, 2009 11:21 AM
Anonymous said...: Those ill-fated products have been promoted by the FI's as "Capital Protected Investments". To a layman, lawyer, doctor, MP, TC or whoever, "capital protected" meant what it said i.e. capital protected, regardless of the fine prints or your education level. Any other interpretation is cheating as far as I'm concerned. I think MAS ought to do something to help those so called "investors", who had accepted the products basically like a 5-year deposit.

MM Lee suggested that people walked in with their eyes opened -- I am sure they did, but I think what they saw were "Capital Protected Investments". So the worst anyone would expect would be to earn 0% interest after 5 years. To pay them back anything less than 100% of the capital at maturity is cheating.; August 07, 2009 3:12 PM
Anonymous said...: This is like giving you a vaccine that is advertised as "100% Protection" against H1N1 but when you unfortunately hit by H1N1, you get criticized for not reading the fine prints. How credible is that? You may complain to MOH but just be prepared to be told "well, you walked in with your eyes opened".; August 07, 2009 3:39 PM
Anonymous said...: I was told that if I wish to have 100% of my capital protected, I should buy those products that say "capital guaranteed". I wonder if I wish to have 100% of my capital guaranteed, should I buy those products that say "capital protected", or what? How can MAS allow the FI's to twist the words the way they did and allow them to get away with it? How can anyone be certain now that the "capital guaranteed" products do not have any fine prints hidden somewhere that you may lost 100% of your capital as well? How can we have any trust anymore with the FI's and MAS?; August 07, 2009 3:55 PM
Anonymous said...: Can you remember who was shouting 'more good years' and Swiss type of living for Singaporean during election time? Now Hong Kee, Taiwanese, Swiss and many more countries may have been compensated. What sort of Swiss standards are we talking about?; August 07, 2009 4:44 PM
Anonymous said...: The phrase " captial protected" cannot be used in the future , only capital guaranteed.; August 07, 2009 4:55 PM
Anonymous said...: I got conned by ABN AMRO the same way. The RM sent an email saying it is "100% capital protected". It is unbelievable that MAS can let the banks get away with such things. And it is equally unbelievable that the banks can do such things. Lessons learnt "Banks cannot be trusted. They are not honest." MAS, enough said about them.; August 07, 2009 4:59 PM
Anonymous said...: Dear All,

I understand you all have been through a lot.

Nevertheless, please do remember to recite the Singapore National Pledge at 8:22pm this Sun, 9 Aug 09 (also known as the Pledge Moment).

You all must recite the National Pledge in unison to reaffirm your commitment to the nation.

You have to remind yourself what it means to be a Singaporean.

The National Pledge should remind all of you the importance of justice, equality and unity, to achieve prosperity and progress for your country.

This is the time to take a step back to think about what the National Pledge truly means to you.

And don’t just keep your sentiments to yourself - let every Singaporean out there know what the National Pledge means to you by going to the official NDP portal www.ndpeeps.com (link below) and answer the following question: "What does the Pledge mean to me?"

http://www.ndpeeps.com/reflections.html

(enter above URL into web browser; click on the question "What does the Pledge mean to me?"; scroll all the way to the bottom to enter your reflection to the question)

Remember! It's: “We, the citizens of Singapore, pledge ourselves as one united people, regardless of race, language or religion, to build a democratic society based on justice and equality so as to achieve happiness, prosperity and progress for our nation.”

Yes! Recite in unison at 8:22pm on Sun 9 Aug!!; August 07, 2009 7:20 PM
Anonymous said...: It is the millionairs we are angry with and the same millionairs running MAS who just not helping us, the MB investors. Wrong means wrong, right means right. How come found FIs wrong and then ask us to fight for ourselves.

Anyway, Happy Birthday Singapore. Hope when these millionairs Recite the National Pledge, they then remembered we are the same Singaporeans who supported the pay raise them and make them millionairs.; August 07, 2009 8:05 PM
Anonymous said...: After 40 years, I realised the pledge means nothing to me. My belief in it has been destroyed by MAS; August 07, 2009 8:46 PM
Anonymous said...: When they promised "more good years", sadly it was like "capital protected" - you need to read the fineprints and realised you are not covered. How to trust anymore?; August 07, 2009 8:54 PM
Anonymous said...: We have been talking about creativity for a long long time now.
Now we understanding what is creativity, what is "think out of the box."

HK is creative. They have shown the way.
GE is creative. It has shown the way.

U don't have to be a genus or talent to be creative.
It is whether u want to do it or not.

Not point talk, talk talk , dream dream dream and no action. Or just self praising.

It can be very easy. It can also be very diffiult.; August 07, 2009 9:30 PM
Anonymous said...: To [Aug 07, 2009 7:20pm],

Well said! Well said!

Let's all recite the Pledge in unison - for justice and equality!!

Yes!! Yes!!!; August 07, 2009 9:56 PM
Chin Huat said...: Regarding "100% Capital Protected", what has the Advertising Standards Authority of S'pore got to say?

Is there a case of misleading advertisement?; August 07, 2009 11:02 PM
Anonymous said...: Dear 7:20pm,

Bravo! I will recite the Pledge in unison with everyone else!

This saga has proven that justice prevails in our society!

Bravo!!; August 07, 2009 11:27 PM
Anonymous said...: I bought from Phillip Securities and they have been rejecting our petition to follow HK.

I believe their reason is that the mgt think it is not their fault thus save money. Since they want to save money, we can help them by asking all Singaporean not to buy their product.

i) PS sold $20 million MB to retail.
ii) With a max assumption of 5% commission, it comes up to $1 million.
iii) To follow GE initiative, PS need to take out $19 million.

Thus, it is a up uphill task to get PS to follow while the only possibility is MAS step in. Too bad MAS is on their side from the very beginning since MAS is tin the same league as Temasak and DBS.; August 08, 2009 8:18 AM
Anonymous said...: Actually a large group of people disapprove the minister pay raise. But what to do, they force it through. If given a vote on this issue, it will be rejected flat.

PM says he has decided on the last pay raise and ask us to measure the minister performance in the next election.

Well, SM and Min Lim from MAS failed miserably on this MB issue. Worst, I think their decision was also influence by govt having an significant interest in DBS through Temasak.; August 08, 2009 8:47 AM
Anonymous said...: I think as a responsible chairman of MAS, he must speak and tell the MB investors what is his position. He just cannot stop talking about this issue when all of us felt that we have being treated unfairly. At this moment, every speech coming out from any ministers is just not believable or has no creditability. You just cannot sweep MB under the carpet and start a biography to remove the hurt felt by us, the heartlanders.

As a chairman, stop painting big pictures of challenges and talk to us about MB. If nothing is said, then we take it that all of you are just ignoring us.; August 08, 2009 9:19 AM
Anonymous said...: Hi 8:20 am,

Don't put too much hope on PM Lee. Since he took over as PM, LHL has displayed he is a man without idea of his own. He has been living under SM Lee's shadow for too long. This can be clearly evidenced by the Mas Selamat's incident.; August 08, 2009 10:58 AM
Anonymous said...: Is there a solution to all this after MAS report is out?

Is the blog & Hong Lim Park gathering continue to affect people confident in the authority?

The answer is Yes. It can.

i) MAS/Govt should consider speaking to TKL or ask TKL to help to get a rep from each FIs investors.

or ii) payout similar to HK SFC proposal.

Why prolong this pain? We are the Singaporean victims you pledge to help when you become a minister. So help! How can we stop when we continue to seek justice to voice our frustration in the mis-sell and mis-rep. We are not rich to engage lawyers our retirment money are in MB which supposingly should continue to stay in FD in the first place.; August 08, 2009 11:46 AM
Anonymous said...: Does anyone know how is it possible to take a class action against AIA regarding the critical year issue? AIA has just been sued regarding the critical issue. Thanks

http://forum.channelnewsasia.com/viewtopic.php?p=2958264&sid=897eb40141534fb6f6895280fb0f5de5; August 08, 2009 5:06 PM
Anonymous said...: It's tough to admit the truth, but yes, I do acknowledge that for this entire fiasco, justice in its purest form has been meted out swiftly, fairly, impartially and equitably.

The highest order of noble truth has prevailed throughout this saga, in a righteous and virtuous manner.

All the institutions involved in this debacle have conducted their dealings with true moral integrity, conforming to the principles of uprightness and human perfection and fulfilling all their moral obligations to all relevant parties.

Yes, justice has truly been upheld.; August 08, 2009 6:20 PM
Anonymous said...: HK investors protest DBS

http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2BNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_414677.html

Consider Minibond closed in HK, now they are going after HK DBS.; August 09, 2009 9:12 PM
Tan Kin Lian said...: Update as at 9 August: 716 signatures. Still adding 10 signatures a day. Rather slow.; August 09, 2009 9:43 PM
Anonymous said...: Maybe just a vocal minority. That may explain the slowness.; August 09, 2009 10:29 PM
Anonymous said...: GE policyholders should also sue the agents and the company for mis-selling .Let AIA policyholder take the lead.; August 09, 2009 10:49 PM
Anonymous said...: The formation of FISCA is timely. Judging by the legal action by indiviudals against the FIs is heartening. FISCA can play a role to expose the the insurance agents and the insurance companies, the RMs and the banks.
Let's see the developement of the AIA legal suit.; August 10, 2009 12:01 AM
Anonymous said...: Let's see how HK DBS plays out.

The story may goes like this:

i) HK protestors continues. HK DBS business affected.
ii) SFC ask DBS to deal or be fine due to missell or misrep.
iii) DBS if refuses, faces fine. If agreed to compensate using Minibond model then they owe Singaporean an answer i.e. will DBS compensate S'porean and why only when forced by HK SFC, they agreed to pay? What is Sgp MAS going to put their face?

Remember, all the success in HK was due to the HK investors' hard work and HK SFC & HK MA beliving that fraud actually happened.

MB investors & DBS HN investors must show up on 22 Aug 09 to show support and our dissatisfaction of MAS handling of our victimization. If not, then please don't complain about HK MB investors have a good deal. It just that we are treated like a 2nd class citizen and no solidarity.; August 10, 2009 12:23 AM
Anonymous said...: So sad. When people are celebrating, we are suffering.
How to forget? It is such a big amount. It will take at least 10 years to earn back.
Will be suffering for the next 10 years.; August 10, 2009 9:40 AM
Anonymous said...: At this point, I think MAS is the greatest culprit. They failed to regulate when minibond was sold, and then failed to act for investors when widespread mis-selling was proven at all FI. Ministers behind have lost their authority, don't expect me to vote for such a party anymore.; August 10, 2009 12:07 PM
Anonymous said...: More good years- but for who!; August 10, 2009 2:25 PM
Anonymous said...: look like hard to exceed 800 when due; August 10, 2009 6:07 PM
Anonymous said...: So if that individual win the lawsuit against AIA regarding the critical year issue, does that mean the rest of the 110,000 policyholders can do likewise? That is indeed heartening ...; August 11, 2009 12:46 AM
Anonymous said...: I have been thumbing for this Govt since independence, and have willingly give up a large part of my political rights, and have had accepted the huge Ministers' pay as I thought this Govt deserved all these as they had been protecting me and my family.
I got the greatest shock of my life when MAS and the Ministers sided with the FIs and let my fate to be decided by UOB Kay Hian whose remisier phoned me to buy the Minibond product.

I don't want to live in a pseudo democracy. What's a democracy if i am not allowed to protest in public. All those threats and wiaudio visual equipments in a small park is sickening. Singapore is not North korea the ll. Perhaps it's time to change Govt in the next election, and a change of President whose job is to query the losses in our reserves and not keep quiet for the sake of his salary perks.; August 11, 2009 2:19 PM
Anonymous said...: Singapore is still considered a very young country - only 44 years old. I am not surprised that there is still a lot of room for improvement on statutory regulations and laws etc.; August 11, 2009 8:40 PM
Anonymous said...: President Nathan query Govt? Ex-President did just that and ended up not appreciated. Probably they are questioning whether a elected President is at all useful. Since this idea was mooted by Grandmaster, look like they will continue to let the elected President do it's ceremonial duty & approves whatever recommended by the cabinet.; August 12, 2009 9:07 AM
Anonymous said...: Shaking hands, attending charity functions, travelling overseas etc. I can do that a token salary.; August 12, 2009 9:42 AM
Anonymous said...: Highest job satisfation at $3.5 milion a year with lowest productivity. What will they think of next? Vice-President at $2.5 million a year carry the sissors for President to cut ribbon.; August 12, 2009 9:51 AM
Anonymous said...: Not forgetting allowances etc and a team of advisors to seek opinion without having to crack your own head to make decision........; August 12, 2009 2:09 PM
Anonymous said...: Another article on MAS Chairman on his past int the managed Straits Times. Very weird that a series of articles about him recently.

My guess is he is stepping now or retiring. Probably due to mishandling of Minibond and for not standing up for heartlanders like us. Whether why deputy MAS chairman not affected?

Very fishy.....But that does not change my thumbs down for the way they handle MB.; August 14, 2009 9:58 AM

Friday, August 14, 2009

Petition to PM on credit linked notes (7)

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