Tan Kin Lian's Blog: Refund of Pinnacle Notes

Monday, May 03, 2010

Refund of Pinnacle Notes

Two years ago, a finance company sold $40,000 in a Pinnacle Notes to my wife. She brought back the sales brochure and felt convinced that it was a good investment. She believed in the assurances given by the finance company. She was told that many people rushed to buy the product which would be sold out soon.

I saw the wording on the brochure, "You stand to lose all of the amount that you have invested". I read the brochure for more details, but was told that they are explained in the prospectus and other documents (not made available to my wife). I said, "What kind of rubbish is this?".

At that time, I had a distrust of all structured products as my wife had earlier invested in two series of capital guaranteed products and got back just 2% after investing for 5 years (when a safe government bond would have earned ber 15% at that time).

I told my wife to cancel the investment and ask the finance company to return the money to her. She said that it was not possible, as she had been told that the investment cannot be rolled back. I told my wife to tell the finance company that if they did not refund the money, I would fight them on a matter of principle.

My wife got back her $40,000. If not, she would have lost nearly all of her invested money as the notes are now worthless.

Lesson: It is important for Singaporeans to think for themselves and be aware of their legal and human rights.

Tan Kin Lian

26 comments:

Anonymous said...: How much information can a phamplet or brochure contain to help a consumer make an investment?

I would think such tools mere marketing tools only and one should always be vigilent enough not to make judgement on a brouchure/phamphlet/flyer.

Since brochures/phamphlets will never have enough information to allow informed choices, such tools should be banned from the banks and financial institutions so that gullible and unwary consumers will not be taken in and buy the products.; May 03, 2010 9:24 AM
Anonymous said...: Kin Lian,
In Singapore, it takes money to enforce your commercial legal rights. I remembered many years ago when my furnutire was not delivered from a purchase I made at a fair, the Company refused to give me the refund and insisted that I choose something else. It is only when I engaged a lawyer and upon receiving the lawyer's letter that I was prepared to fight the case in court that they swiftly return my deposit.

But that is dealing with a small outfit. Now to deal with the bank, I dont stand a chance so just have to open my eyes bog big and let them swallow the money.; May 03, 2010 9:24 AM
Anonymous said...: i had a similiar encounter with u but is with an Insurance company..when e product was sold to me,is a manage fund of sort BUT totally different frm the presentation,i did a search & to my horror,its fund is all taken if not most,by American fund ie.nearly 70% alone are all in US!& there is no brochures & the sales presentation short e onus of transparancy with claim like,"i bought myself but also no info!" could u beat that!? finally i asked to be returned of my money, around 30K & they did..so to 'silent'my critic...u know what..during the crisis,the fund knock off almost 85%!of value & barely just 3 months inception,e fund lost 18%! but what is boiling under is this statement.."fund manager have the rights whatsoever to manage & distribute the fund as deem right.."! this fund have cheated alot of people but what is very surprising today is the attitude of this insurance company & the staff,saying that their clients don't mind loosing as they are aware of the risk and are ricH!!!well, m glad m the only smart one out because after nearly 4 years, the fund is still under water by 70%!; May 03, 2010 10:58 AM
Anonymous said...: Mr Tan, its the 'herd mentality' that normally results in dire "pain and sorrow", and to avoid such consequences comes from understanding the markets and experience. (Obviously, you understand this); May 03, 2010 11:30 AM
Conspiracy said...: Just out of curiousity, what is the interest rate of the government bond now and where can I see it online?; May 03, 2010 11:50 AM
Anonymous said...: "Singaporeans to think for themselves" runs contrary to "We know what's best for you"; May 03, 2010 12:03 PM
Anonymous said...: Citigroup Says Ex-Employee Told Deutsche Bank Secrets

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601108&sid=aWmGVAZCJRGY; May 03, 2010 2:15 PM
Anonymous said...: Mr. Tan, please do not kid us lah. You are well known in the finance industry and somemore big shot in NTUC Income, of course they refund u. We small flies, u think they care? The lesson should be: You must have Power and Money.; May 03, 2010 2:15 PM
Tan Kin Lian said...: Reply to 2:14 pm

I feel very sad for people like you, who always find excuses not to fight for their right. I assure you that I am not kidding, so stop insulting me under an anonymous know.

I know of some people who are willing to fight for their rights and because of that, the other party decide to give way to avoid getting bad publicity.

Be ready to fight for what is right and people will respect you.; May 03, 2010 4:30 PM
Tan Kin Lian said...: Reply to 11:50 am

I remember that interest rate on 5 year government bonds was aroudn 3% to 4% during most of the years, and only reduced to 2% p.a. recently.; May 03, 2010 4:31 PM
Robert said...: Never let these guys manage your money, and never do it for less than 5% per annum. The risk of default is too high.
Many of these type of products offer little benefit to investors. It is a cheap loan for the issuers. They get their almost free money, and use it to speculate assets and push the markets to dizzy heights before letting it crash but we pay the price of asset inflation. You see them in stocks, property investment funds, commodities:Oil, coal, steel, aluminum & food; and in precious metals:Gold & silver. The high food prices eg:milk, rice, cooking oil, corn, flour, sugar, beef, fruits, vegetables, fish, cause tremendous hardships for the poor and middle class.; May 03, 2010 4:36 PM
Anonymous said...: I kinda agree with Anon: 2:14pm & Anon 9:23am. The chances of success in exercising your commercial legal rights will require time and money, which not many ordinary folks can afford.

By the way, once you have the money, which power will follows, you will have lots of respect.

Can RESPECT fill your stomach if you have no money?; May 03, 2010 4:48 PM
Anonymous said...: @anon.2.14pm.
hello,mr tan is not kidding & if mr tan is 'powerful'then surely m mighty,i just 'shot e sheriff'on the foot when i wanted my money back,straight to e point & blantly open cover their hidden agendas,if any,& i won, m just a layman & the agent ask the company to pay me back every single cents so as to silent my "critics"which of course became a reality of huge losses to many people..the fund raise some 60million Sgd in just 2 weeks selling without brochures BUT info given are all not relevant to the package of products..worst,the distribution of fund alloted is most distorted if not disturbing at all and mind u, THIS IS A BIG INSURANCE COMPANY & is "double sweet"that all pple who losses their money is still wanting to save faces, for me no way!i dot 'faces'i just want my $ back!& hell i get it...they sold the products on "clients'relationship' & boast of great return,as for me, i did my search & within 2 weeks after the fund is effected,fought all the way to top management & threatened to expose the mis-info..even at the time BEFORE the crisis,..barely 8 months down 'BOOMZ'came the whopping collapse of the financial instrument such like this one BUT STILL, they claim is a legitimate products hmmnn,many stupid pple can really lost money big, including this agent who claimed she is still hanging on..guess what..she have invested some 80K and her portfolio of clients buying this product is somewhere near 1 million!!i won BECAUSE I FOUGHT FOR MY RIGHTS, NOT THAT I AM FAMOUS & POWERFUL, LOUD YES, WITH CONNECTION NO! I USE MY BRAIN!well,since m educated both local & USA, AUSTRIALIA AND PART FRANCE.; May 03, 2010 5:14 PM
Anonymous said...: Darling Kinny,

You wife is so lucky to have a superman husband like you.

I too have a problem and I hope you can help. I still single and young 25 plus.

Please help Kinny, please.; May 03, 2010 6:11 PM
Anonymous said...: maybe they afraid you will sue them and they koe you have the money to sue mr tan.

but if for me they will not care as they koe i do not have money to pay lawyer to sue.

but can we sue them on our own no need to hire a lawyer? what is singapore law like? anyone koe?; May 03, 2010 6:54 PM
Tan Kin Lian said...: Reply to 6:11 pm
You have been posting rubbish in my blog frequently - which was blocked. I have now decided to let other people see what kind of rubbish you have been posting.; May 03, 2010 7:28 PM
Anonymous said...: I read wif interest e following of subject matter,many have missed e point,such like no 'power''money' and u name it,then in e very first place,if u have invested in such products,are ur ignorance warrant e following up of claim case,if any since u have chosen to invest. Clear ur thought guys,u cannot have all e pie & wanting to eat it..here,the subject is STAND UP & STANCE YR RIGHTS and not expect others to speak or continuing to fight for u,if u r loosers,then let's keep it this way,liken apathy & no matter how hard education is driven to get points across,u'll never learn & is only pple like TKL have e patience,as for me,u die ur business,i gave my cents worth of thoughts bcuz is so 'interesting'that with such simple issue of content such like exercising ur rights,SE pple have so many excuses to fend & yet, lament & complain that nothing is done enuf FOR U BUT WHAT DID U YOURSELF DO TO FEND FOR YOUR RIGHTS?TKL, m truly amaze with your energy to fight and continue to teach this lot of people..as for me,well,is enjoy for me to enjoy my coffee and "savor fair".; May 03, 2010 9:26 PM
Unknown said...: I believe in unity, if we fight on a whole instead of just individual, I principles. We need to have trust in ourselves. I understand in Singapore, we don’t have a union to stand up for us. We need to stand up for ourselves. Nobody will pity us, care for us if we don’t stand up and believe in ourselves. This is a reality.; May 03, 2010 9:52 PM
Anonymous said...: Anon 9:26pm is so daft. Looks like he has a problem in comprehension. No one is asking TKL to fight for them here. What those guys are saying is that u have a higher chances of commercial legal rights if u have time n money.; May 03, 2010 10:14 PM
Anonymous said...: After reading the above, I come to the conclusion that heaven helps those who help themselves. Nothing change as the good-for-nothing MAS will not do anything while we will continue to encounter agents, salesman, conman from all kinds of company with all kinds of products claiming SAFE, HI
GH RETURN and with verbal or black and white guarrantee. We can argue until the cow come home but one has to be very, very alert and careful when signing on the dotted lines.

Maybe joining FISCA as a member will allow you to seek 2nd opinion so that you know the risk and the true nature of these products. Minibond owner like me spent nearly 1 1/2 year agonising the possible 100% lost. Not worth it as the effort of doing recovery work after signing on the dotted line is tremendous. One of my friend won his case but the License FI is about to file for bankruptcy as they have no money to fullfill the court judgement....; May 04, 2010 12:29 AM
Bryan said...: Hi all,

I was once a bank consultant selling all these so-called financial products. Honestly speaking, we're all driven by sales targets which we have to hit monthly, else our job's on the line.

Although, some are really giving decent and truthful advice, but my question is: does giving a decent and truthful advice guarantee you money? or rather the sales?

when money and career advancement are on the line or simply greed, it's either YOU or ME and something have to give.

sad to say, this has happened before and is still happening; and that's why i've left sales, as in banking sales.

when you have to choose between ethics and money, the answer is obvious.

i am really powerless but i do hope something will change - hopefully.

Cheers; May 04, 2010 3:17 AM
Anonymous said...: Reference Bryan's post: May 04, 2010 3:17 AM

"I was once a bank consultant selling all these so-called financial products. Honestly speaking, we're all driven by sales targets which we have to hit monthly, else our job's on the line."

I'm in agreement. Allow me to use an analogy.

A drug company develops a toxic drug that is inappropriate and dangerous for the cure it was designed for.

a. Do you prosecute the drug company for producing a bad product?

b. Prosecute the salespeople for mis-selling the drug?
- Do we really expect these salespeople to understand a product that requires scientists to develop, test and approve?
- How will asking salespeople to undergo examinations help in product safety?
- A bad drug is a bad drug. It should not be sold in the first place.

c. Ask whether the government has a role to play in regulating drug safety?

d. Given the complex nature of drugs, is it logical and fair to tell citizens that it is "buyer beware" and that they should conduct their own research before using such drugs?
- Would giving out a 1-page product facts summary help patients make a wiser decision in the choice of drugs?
- Would asking patients and salespeople fill out a "discovery of facts" form before buying, help make a wiser choice of drugs?

I don't have all the answers. But I do know that salespeople did NOT design the mini-bonds and Pinnacle Notes.; May 04, 2010 8:23 AM
Anonymous said...: Those people who design these bonds and notes may be big boy advisors sitting on the advisory board of MAS.
MAS seems to have not much clue of how to operate as a Regulator and has to engage Foreign FIs as advisors, and in the end got played out by them, and to save its face, has to act blur in public.; May 04, 2010 1:07 PM
Anonymous said...: "MAS seems to have not much clue of how to operate as an Regulator"

Then why the Chairman and Deputy Chairman ask for Millions of $ from taxpayers money as salary? If you got no Liao to lead the regulator and no guts to copy other regulators then don't you feel that you are over paid?

Next election, I think MAS chairman will retire. Deputy MAS chairman and MD will be transfer. The usual PAP crap to make people forget about how Minibond saga makes MAS looks bad and with the actions, they hope us to forgive and vote for them.

NO WAY! DAMAGE ALREADY DONE....; May 05, 2010 5:18 PM
Anonymous said...: Now you know who is the political eunuch!; May 06, 2010 6:57 AM
calvin ong said...: I agree we should stand up and be firm if we are right. Be the change that you want. I have successfully demanded fare refunds from SMRT when I travelled in carriages where the air cond wasnt working properly. I remembered one staff gave me an amused look (probably thought I was joking), but when he saw I was serious, he promptly gave me the refund.; May 06, 2010 10:36 AM

Monday, May 03, 2010

Refund of Pinnacle Notes

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