Tan Kin Lian's Blog: Land banking - Gathering on 12 June

Monday, June 07, 2010

Land banking - Gathering on 12 June

The leaders of the investor group are arranging a gathering of investors as follows:

Date: Saturday 12 June 2010
Time: 10.30 am
Place: Speaker's Corner, Hong Lim Park

They wish to organise the investors to seek the recovery of their investments on the land banking products. If you are involved in this product, you can attend the gathering and submit your particulars and make contact with the other investors. The gathering can decide on collective action.

They have invited me to speak at this gathering. The organisers will be alerting the media for this gathering to be publicised and covered.

Please take part in this survey.

29 comments:

Anonymous said...: i think those who have not invested in bankland should also be allow to attend to show support.

Small number of people attending this session would means issue does not need significant attention from the press or govt.

Imagine at the height of MB of a potential of 10,000 people, only 200 plus attended.

I think those who are not investors should also attend to show support to ask MAS to do more instead of drawing S$Millions and do nothing.; June 03, 2010 12:19 PM
Anonymous said...: Mr Tan it will be good if the media highlight about the gathering. I am sure those invested in other companies are affect and with this gathering it can be combined effort and to put pressure to get the authorities to identify who is in charge of this form of investments. I know some FA Firm are selling these LAND products. Need to put a stop to it; June 03, 2010 1:09 PM
Anonymous said...: I agree... i think this is not just a specific UK land company issue, but rather the entire land investment sector, which includes other land investors with various land-banking company. I will attend even though i did not invest with this particular company that's been highlighted by TODAY, to find out more about the pitfalls.; June 03, 2010 1:24 PM
Anonymous said...: the environment here is u die ur business as u open ur eyes big big. will be there to support.; June 03, 2010 1:38 PM
Anonymous said...: I will attend to do some soul searching on whether all LandBankings are Scams? I reserve comments until proven.; June 03, 2010 8:34 PM
Anonymous said...: If aggrieved investors want to be taken seriously especially if they go out to a public platform like the Speakers Corner, then they must ensure that their grievances are legitimate, product-specific and company-specific. From what I have read in the blogs to date, there had been purchases of plots of land and there were also non-land investments. Firstly, if an investment comes with an unconditional assurance by the vendor company to pay certain returns and repay the principal sums at specific timing, then there could be a case against it by investors who should seek recourse on basis of breach of contract. Such investors with a specific vendor can and should group together to take legal action in court.

On the other hand, what if investors buy plots of land under a land-banking scheme on the basis that the get-out would be through sale of the land in toto which is contigent upon getting approval for a conversion of green land usage for residential / commercial purposes. Gestation period is expectedly meduim to long term (3, 5-7 years) while prolonged application for usage conversion is taking place, and if success is not guaranteed by the vendor. Investment risk is obviously high, which is matched by potential high returns. If investors went in with their eyes open accepting high risk-high returns, are such investors in the same position and have the same right to cry foul and sue as in the first case above, 2 or 3 years into the purchase? By all means, protest for your rightful rights and not for the sake of protesting and making a circus of the situation. Some non-investors also expressed a wish to join in the protest but do they know the facts and are familiar with the terms of the products concerned?

Why not Mr. Tan's financial consumer association lend a helping hand to ascertain what situations are legitimate to justify a public protest?

sb; June 03, 2010 8:41 PM
Anonymous said...: My friends wanted to introduce me to invest in US Landbanking, and after hearing the latest US Debts of US$13Thrillion.......I said no "Thrills" anymore & know what I meant?; June 04, 2010 7:47 AM
StFual said...: SB - I agree with your points only if the land is sold with no promises and full disclosure is given on the risks.

Take a look at this Nov 2008 TV advert
Key Points
250% returns in 3 years
Prime London Real Estate

Now take a look at the statements made by Profitable Group representatives in 2010 in the UK

Key Points
The site is on green belt land where housing development is banned.
Investments have been sold on a minimum 7 to 10-year horizon since 2006.
The company will repay anybody who wants to drop out of the scheme.

Now look at what Hounslow Council said here
Key Points
It is very unlikely that planning permission would be given for development on this site.
A planning application for this site has not been
submitted.
There is no expected change to the strategic approach to Green Belt

Quite clearly this is misleading advertising on a reputable factual news channel.; June 04, 2010 8:14 AM
Anonymous said...: Businesses in Singapore especially foreigners are sure to continue to advertise such misleading messages as they know that MAS will do nothing and Govt will continue to look after their interest and not our interest.

We vote for Govt and let them look after the interest of foreigners e.g US banksters.

Then Govt come back to us to ask for pay increase to S$millions a year then tell us that financial turmol is beyond their control.

To solve the problem, they copied what other countries are doing and use sgp reserve to cushion the blow. Of course, they seek the approval of the president [$3.5 million a year] for final clearance. Can the president say no?

Why pay them millions when they use other people's idea to solve problem.

When other people such as British regulator or Hong Kong's regulator acted independently act on landbanking and minibond, MAS choose not to follow.

So why pay them millions when they not only copy who they like and choose who they want to neglect.

We, the taxpayers, again become the suckers of another Singapore Joke.; June 04, 2010 11:50 AM
Anonymous said...: Hi Stooge,
The 20 sec flash advert mentioned "estimated" returns in 3 years but no mention of it being guaranteed. There has not been any evidence that a guarantee is involved.
There have been all kinds of "facts" and confusions about the structure of land-banking deals. Even a "Boron" deal that has nothing to do with land are also grouped into it simply because it was marketed by a landbanking company. That's why I have suggested some kind of a fact finding effort so that we can focus on the true follies of specific land-banking schemes and remove emotive reactions. Much has been related to one name, ie., Profitable Group, so perhaps let's focus on this name first. Hence my suggestion that TKL's association can perhaps initiate something, say, to have a dialogue/interview with this company in a manner similar to what SIAS does in research for equities. This will also serve to expand the awareness and profile of the association as a keeper of investors' interest. Otherwise the session at SC will create some nosies with participants talking at cross purposes because of their different situations, some valid some not.
sb; June 04, 2010 2:59 PM
Anonymous said...: we should be there guys!!! Togetherness is strength..hope our voices would notice government to help bring back our hard earn money,, bring them down!!!; June 04, 2010 11:33 PM
Anonymous said...: MR TAN, HERE I SALUTE YOU WITH GREAT RESPECT YOUR EFFORT TO HELP, ASSIST AND FORWARD YOUR ATTORNEY OF KNOWLEDGE & CHAMPION THE RIGHTS OF INVESTORS.
WITH THIS WORK ALONE, I ADMIRE YOUR COURAGE AND SELFLESS CONTRIBUTION AND WHILE YOU HAD DONE OTHER (EVENT)ON THE PAST, FOR THE LAND BANKING, IS CERTAINLY NOT WITHIN YOUR "FORTE" YET, YOU PARTICIPATE WITH CONTRIBUTION ANY HOW! MAY GOD BLESS U AND YOUR FAMILY OF YOUR KIND AND SINCEREST DOING!; June 05, 2010 12:51 PM
Tan Kin Lian said...: 5 people participated in the survey. 2 indicated that they will attend the gathering. The response is somewhat disappointing.

I want to encourage all those who are involved to register now and attend the gathering.

Please do not approach me at a later date when your investment failed. It is an unfair burden on me. At that time, no one, including me, can help you.; June 05, 2010 1:05 PM
Anonymous said...: Mr. Tan,
I agreed with your view and believe that very few peole will turn up esp meeting set at 10.30am so all will be fried by the sun!; June 05, 2010 2:11 PM
Anonymous said...: Dear land banking investors.
I think it is only fair that you should approach your member of parliament first to seek help.

Satisfy yourself that they are unable to help you and are pretty worthless in general.

Then and only then, should you write to Tan Kin Lian for help.; June 05, 2010 3:46 PM
Tan Kin Lian said...: At 10.30 am, it should be not too hot. I hope that the investors turn up and do not miss this chance. Frankly, the MPs will not be able to help. Many invsetors have approached them already.; June 05, 2010 4:36 PM
StFual said...: SB.
This Profitable Group Advert ran on a reputable national news channel in Singapore for 3 months at prime time in the morning not the back pages of some free newspaper.

What is your definition of estimate and prime ?. If I estimate I will return you 10% per year for 3 years and you earn 25% or 35% after 3 years I dont think you can complain. If I estimate you will earn 250% in 3 years and you lose 98% I think its a huge misrepresentation.

If I claim to be a planning expert and tell you it is Prime London Real Estate when in fact UK regulations specifically prevent building taking place and I knew in 2007 that local authority has said the site has no chance to get planning permission I think its huge misrepresentation.

Chelgate the UK PR representatives of Profitable Group were quoted that Profitable Group will repay anybody who wants to drop out of the scheme. and the same article says even Chelgate admit there is no chance of development in less than minimum 7 to 10-years. (Hounslow Council says no chance even then)

A Chelgate spokesman said: “Circulation of a TV advertisement showing land at Feltham… as offering an estimated return of 250 per cent in three years, was aired for a short period in 2006… such advertising has long since been withdrawn. Investments have been sold on a minimum 7 to 10-year horizon.”

Clearly not true since the advert ran in Singapore Oct-Dec 2008. Will Profitable Group be running 3 months of TV adverts estimating zero returns in 3 years with the option for a full refund now?; June 05, 2010 6:47 PM
Anonymous said...: Dear Mr Tan
Reference asking help from the members of parliament.

I just wanted to avoid the situation where;
a) you help these unfortunate souls
b) after solving the problem
c) the Members of Parliament subsequently come out with a statement saying that they would have been able to help if only their constituents had come to them for help in the first place.

Common tactic in corpoarte politics.
a) Pretend to be ignorant of problem
b) Push (tai-chi) problem to an
other person
c) claim credit after problem is successfully resolved
d) disavow any responsibility if things turn out badly

The following are "rules" from a renown political infighter in Washington, USA.
Examples:

- "Unless you can fake sincerity, you'll get nowhere in this business."

- "Politics with me isn't theater. It's performance art. Sometimes, for its own sake."

- "Hit it from every angle. Open multiple fronts on your enemy. He must be confused, and feel besieged on every side."

- "Always praise 'em before you hit 'em."

- "Losers don't legislate."

- "Admit nothing, deny everything, launch counterattack." ("Often called the Three Corollaries")

- "Avoid obviousness."

- "Never do anything till you're ready to do it."

- "Always keep the advantage."

Source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Stone; June 06, 2010 11:13 AM
Anonymous said...: I think Mr Tan should reconsider helping these investors.

A) they are few in numbers
B) they knew what they where doing
C) If they had made money, would they have shared it with Mr Tan?

Help them to the extent of highlighting the issues.. but not to represent or to assist in organising them into a group. Most, if not all were in for the quick bucks.. greed.
They sound like property agents and insurance agents who THINK they know all about investing.

They should be able to defend themselves.; June 06, 2010 2:55 PM
Anonymous said...: Good luck to all investors. How much garmen is willing to help is best compare to the unfortunate investors of Lehman structure product and the kind of "help " that investors received.; June 06, 2010 7:18 PM
Anonymous said...: When one manage to earn some profit, one just keep it to themselves and enjoy it. When one lose money, one tends to blame on excuses like mislead, mispresentation, etc, whatever excuses one can think of. Shouldn't one be responsible for their own money? Hmm... do one share their profit with others or with government? :); June 07, 2010 8:45 AM
Unknown said...: Why are some Singaporeans so happy for others to suffer? You see everyone cheated as weak, greedy or stupid. There are also decent hard working people who earn some money and want somewhere to put it to protect their future. These are decent people who dont always see the bad, the use of weasel words or the small print or the fact that some sales people will tell any lie for commission . They believe if a company is allowed to advertise on national and international TV, allowed to operate in Singapore, it should be responsible for the claims it makes. If it isnt it should be shut down.

The money is almost certainly gone but lets not allow the cheating to continue.; June 07, 2010 10:18 AM
Anonymous said...: Let the scheduled Gathering at Speaker's Corner be a fruitful one, as those Landbanking companies involved, will be also on their toes and watching!ays

Appreciate daily updates on the number of people keen to be present.; June 07, 2010 11:10 AM
Anonymous said...: To start at 10.30am means to end around 12 noon, It is going to be very hot. Why didnt the organisers plan to hold it in the evening like the minibond saga. Even then it was still hot and we often look for shelter to ward off the heat.

Poor planning from my view point!; June 07, 2010 2:18 PM
Anonymous said...: I am sure if you are one of the affected investors and have an interest in doing something about the situation, a little weather is not going to kill you. What happens if on that day instead of intense sunlight, you get heavy rain? Ever considered the opposite effect?

For all those who are genuine and want to do something about the situation or want to find out how best they can deal with it - like in the minibond saga - do show your support and come forward! No need to be shy or be embarrassed about anything. I believe many other people are in the same boat!; June 07, 2010 4:30 PM
Anonymous said...: 4.30pm. I did not invest in land banking.If timing can be better why not?; June 07, 2010 6:40 PM
Anonymous said...: if I have invested in land banking in the past and have enjoyed very good returns, am I welcome to attend the event?; June 07, 2010 10:29 PM
Anonymous said...: Mr Tan, I think this gathering should also highlight Land Banking in general. I am sure other companies are aware of their operations and whether the model is fair to investors. Have a friend who bought a piece in Canada, todate after 10 years still no result but she still has to pay monthly mortgage. Something not right here.
Its time to voice out. So far media has report of profitable gp, MPs and govt authorities all do not want to get involve. Typical wait and see attitude. They do not practise what they preach to be pro active, very sad.
Though the numbers are small, Mr Tan do keep up the good work. It increases your credibility; June 08, 2010 5:56 AM
Anonymous said...: We hope all the malpractices of the Landbanking companies are exposed.

Some Sales Consultant will always say 4-6 yrs Exit or even shorter so as to entice into a false trap but if you really scrutinise the fine prints - says subject to approval?. Once in, hard to backout!
The 4-6 yrs. timeline in some cases, can drag to over 10 yrs or longer???
Poor cash strapped investors often caught napping at most times!

In this world or uncertainities Cash$$$ is King! ...Time to get real.; June 08, 2010 10:13 AM

Monday, June 07, 2010

Land banking - Gathering on 12 June

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