Tan Kin Lian's Blog: NTUC Income is different today

Sunday, November 02, 2008

NTUC Income is different today

Dear Mr Tan,

I will not buy anymore structured products or anything sold by financial institutions after this lesson. I wished I had seek your advice two years ago.

But you also mentioned don't invest in whole life, endowment, policies, etc. I don't understand what you mean? I had total 8 policies with Income and all bought when you were CEO. Can you explain please?

REPLY

I also had 15 whole life and endowment policies over the years from NTUC Income, covering me and my family members. These policies offered good bonuses and a fair return on maturity in the past years.

Today, things are different. Income is now run on different principles - quite similar to the other insurance companies. I have decided to cancel a whole life policy, where the bonus has been cut.

I will decide on the other policies later.

44 comments:

Anonymous said...: Mr Tan,

You mentioned that its best just to buy term plans in an earlier post. Why was INCOME selling whole life and endowment back then?; November 02, 2008 9:26 PM
Anonymous said...: NTUC income doesn't offer value for money products anymore.
The products are expensive, the protection is low and the return is miserable even after 30 years.
It is nether a protection nor a saving insurance plan.To cover up the weaknesses are frills and so called additional but useless benefits.The greedy agents are promoting the frills rather the weak basic plan.Consumers must be wary of this. Another illusionary feature is the limited pay . Don't be conned by this. This makes your protection plan even worse because you are paying more in your early years and that may deprive you of the adequate coverage that you need badly.What good having a low coverage for life which inevitably also ends at 65 and not beyond.No wonder ntuc agents only bring a small cheque to the funeral wake.
Worse, risk has gone up since restructuring the bonus. Wondering if the life fund has been badly affected by the financial turmoil. I believe the hit is high because of the restructuring.
Today it is better to buy term and invest the rest. You get more protection and more return and the risk can be lesser than sharing with the other policyholders in the wholelife and endowment.
NTUC is no longer a cooperative and original objective of offering affordable insurance to the man in the street has disappeared because of cost which has been spiraling since new management.It is now known as a social enterprise which is no different from any company which is a good corporate citizen.

A former policyholder; November 02, 2008 10:02 PM
Anonymous said...: Mr Tan ,

I had a few policies from NTUC Income, including Living , education, etc. These policies are already many years and have some substantial cash value if they are surrendered. I just like to know whether the cash value is revocable .; November 02, 2008 11:04 PM
Raymond T said...: Mr Tan, can please post what are the policies (critical illness or endowment, protection etc) you give up in the forum? Gives us a better idea what is value for money as well. Thanks!; November 02, 2008 11:14 PM
Tan Kin Lian said...: I surrendered the Living policy (i.e. critical illness). The return is poor, after the bonus cut.

Even before the bonus cut, the return is not satisfactory. The actuary should have declared a higher rate of bonus on these policies, as the claim experience has been much lower than projected in the pricing of the policy.

If the company opts to keep the profit, rather than being fair to the policyholders, it is best to give up the policy and avoid the company in the future.; November 02, 2008 11:33 PM
zhummmeng said...: Avoid any wholeife living,limited pay or otherwise . They are rip off. You are better off buying a living term and invest the difference. The term need not be until 65. Depending on your age it can be a term of 10 or 20 years with guaranteed renewal.This is to bring the cost down so that you can have adequate coverage. Remember adequate coverage is important especially during the critical years of your life when your responsibility is at the highest and not when you are beyond 65.Also this is NOT the only area you need to cover. What about dependents' need and disability? All these 3 areas are important and they MUST be addressed as priority and not postponed . Insurance agents tell you ,you can. Sue them.
At 65 you can stop and self insure and not what some idiotic and unqualified insurance agents will have you believed that you need a living policy at this age and beyond.. Yes you are most vulnerable at this age but an H&S medical should be enough to take care with some self insurance if you should be struck and you might not.. This is the most efficient way. Planning is the key..Get a qualified, honest and competent adviser to help you. Don't get a former insurance agent disguised as some senior or executive financial consultant. Don't be fooled by the outside cover.Worse avoid one with mdrt or cot mark on their name card. You know how they got those marks, right? They got them by dumping you with useless expensive wholelife or anticipated endowment so they can earn high commission to qualify for those marks but at your expense. Be wary and you should be safe.; November 03, 2008 12:12 AM
Anonymous said...: I bought a 5 year single premium policy from NTUC Income yesterday. It is functioning more as a fixed deposit paying very little insurance coverage, anyway this is exactly what i wanted. The non guaranteed returns is 3.2% p.a. which is comparable with UOB life, etc. etc. From experience i know even though the interest is quoted as two possible figures, a non guaranteed and a guaranteed value, usually the non guaranteed amount higher amount will be realisable on maturity..
I don't know about this bonus cut thing mentioned by Kin Lian. I suppose that even if they pay 2% the investment is a good one since no normal fix deposit pays higher than 1% for the 30K which i put in. Right now I think the best thing to do is to put excess money into Single Premium policies as they are very safe. Any comments would be helpful.
Thank you.
REX; November 03, 2008 7:27 AM
Anonymous said...: For anyone who looking for FD rate, pls refer to the following:

http://singapore-fixed-deposits.com/wordpress/

The best FD rate now in town is 2.125pa

Danny; November 03, 2008 7:49 AM
Anonymous said...: REX,
when putting in this single premium
endowment these are followings to consider.
1.lock in risk
2 first few years zero return
3.loss of liquidity
4.reinvestment risk
5. return is non guaranteed
Currently FD is increasing caused by credit crunch. FD is 100% safe..short lock in....no premature withdrawal risk....liquidity..; November 03, 2008 9:13 AM
Anonymous said...: REX
I recently cashed out my single premium (which paid about 3% pa)due to fears of company failing.I think short term fixed deposit is safer at the moment.; November 03, 2008 10:23 AM
Anonymous said...: I hope consumers open their eyes big big BIG when they are offered whole life and endowment products. Run as fast as you can when you hear that the anticipated endowment refunds you cash backs. This is a scam worse than pyramid schemes.
If MAS does not consider the merits of the products this is what happened.
Insurance companies are getting worse. They have lost their moral duty to the public. They are cheats. The agents are cheats.I hope retributions will befall them for what they have done to society.; November 03, 2008 10:29 AM
Anonymous said...: NTUC Income i-term & ID7 are still good product, introdue by Tan KL with no changes from the new managment.

Living rider (which can be added to any main plan including i-term & Family Insurance Plan) offer a much lower premium rate than Mr Tan KL time. (the premium reduced @ Dec 2007); November 03, 2008 11:16 AM
Anonymous said...: Rex said:
I bought a 5 year single premium policy from NTUC Income yesterday. It is functioning more as a fixed deposit paying very little insurance coverage, anyway this is exactly what i wanted. The non guaranteed returns is 3.2% p.a. which is comparable with UOB life, etc. etc. From experience i know even though the interest is quoted as two possible figures, a non guaranteed and a guaranteed value, usually the non guaranteed amount higher amount will be realisable on maturity..
I don't know about this bonus cut thing mentioned by Kin Lian. I suppose that even if they pay 2% the investment is a good one since no normal fix deposit pays higher than 1% for the 30K which i put in. Right now I think the best thing to do is to put excess money into Single Premium policies as they are very safe. Any comments would be helpful.
Thank you.
REX

Oh Rex, don't the financial institutions love people like you. My RMs used to try to interest me in their fancy schemes and I will ask them how many percent return will I be getting and is it guaranteed. There is a reason why it is not guaranteed. Even when they tell me it is 9% returns I told them that it is not exciting and I explain to them the returns of some of my investments which I did myself. They were dumbfounded. 3.2% return in 5 years is definitely not exciting, especially when it is not even guaranteed. You take all the risk and not even guaranteed 3.2%? You have fallen into a trap that is used even in some supermarkets. If you are observant enough you will see that some items are priced at x and then nearby the same item is priced at x -30% for example. So you will naturally think that it is a bargain. What they can do is mark up the item at 30% or 40% and then give a discount making you think that it is a bargain.
Same logic applies here.
Do not limit yourself to this paradigm, Who says cannot get more on interest rates? For example, a Fixed Deposit on Chinese Yuan taken out at the beginning of this year netted me 4.14% interest plus the more than 10% forex gain makes a comfortable 15% gain. I expect this gain to rise above 20% by the time it matures next year. So I will be getting a 20% return in a year. This is actually conservative already since it is a fixed deposit.; November 03, 2008 11:33 AM
Anonymous said...: What about income shares? Is it still worthwhile to keep since the management has changed?; November 03, 2008 1:39 PM
Anonymous said...: Thanks very much for the various comments on my decision to put money in a Single Premium Plan (SPP) paying me 3.2% pa. (5 year maturity, optimistic projection)
One comment made was that it is safer to keep in normal FD. I dont agree. For SPP, the principal is Guaranteed, the interest is much higher and there is a bonus insurance payout to be enjoyed if something bad happens to you (no such thing for normal FD).

SPP disadvantage is just one, i.e. wait 5 years, no early withdraw. (Lehman bonds also 5 years but interest is just a teeny weeny more and the principal is... you know the story)

As for fearing that the insurance company go bust, no one can guarantee that.. but in the single premium plans, the contract says "principal is guaranteed" so what more can we ask? We just have to put the spare money somewhere, other than below one's bed.

One reader suggested playing with currency like Chinese Yuan (he/she said he/she she got 15%) . The Chinese Yuan may behave like Australian dollar some day. Personally i know nuts about forex, and dont even dare try. Return high, but there is higher risk, to quote Goh Chok Tong, it is life.

I still think Single Premium policies are the best and safest way to park spare money, for those of us who don't like to dabble in the stocks market or forex market.

In fact, I am very much convinced about this and i wish that Mr Tan Kin Lian should create a post to educate the general public to tell them this tip. I had SPP's matured this year and the optimistic projection pay out was given to me. I am happy.

REX; November 03, 2008 2:40 PM
Anonymous said...: the long term inflation rate is 3.5-4%. Your single premium is only good against inflation at the best. No real growth. It means your money is not working harder. 5 years down the road your money is good enough to buy what it is worth today. It means 'quit' at the best, loss is more likely.
The best hedge against inflation is still equities.
But Rex, if your objective is preserving your purchasing power then this is suitable. For growth it is not the right product.Your adviser should be able to assemble a portfolio to give you the desired return.

FA; November 03, 2008 4:37 PM
Anonymous said...: With hindsight, we must now be extremely cautious of signing any contract that promises even "capital guarantee". Why ? 10,000 victims learned it the hard way, signed on to "Solid Foundations..... Low Risk" products only to be fooled by "buyer beware" in 83-page prospectus.
Sign only if CEO and Board of Directors sign, otherwise, can claim low-level employees have no right to give promises, and make sure guarantee is real, eg depositing equivalent amount in gold in Federal Reserve. Otherwise, how to trust piece of paper ?; November 03, 2008 4:53 PM
Anonymous said...: What can I say. There are people dumb enough to be happy with a nonguaranteed 3.2%. These people do not even know what is opportunity cost. They lose yet they are so happy! A fool and his money is soon parted. But a happy fool is still happy and the most important thing is to be happy. Hey a tip for all those who lost their money to Lehman Brothers, be happy, don't worry, be like Rex and be happy.; November 03, 2008 5:19 PM
Anonymous said...: Dear FA
Thank you for commenting on my post. I agree that 3.2% is no big deal compared to what the banks earning or compared to successful equities investments. But what can we ordinary folks do. It is what the banks/insurance companies willing to give, the best and safest. You mentioned "making money work harder". There is no such thing as getting more money without harder risks to take. Equities used to be less risky esp. blue chips, but these days even stock market crash 50% so a humble +3.2% on SPP is better than most stocks. Unless one is an experienced expert stock player, i maintain that Single Premium Policies is the best thing to do with spare cash not required for the next 5 years. You can't go wrong so long as you wait till maturity. When that happens just roll another 5 years. Construct 6yr, 7 yr 8yr 9yr and 10yr plans then after the 5th year it begins to appear that you have FD's on annual basis paying 3.2%. This is VERY suitable for conservative investors like retirees, etc. It is so simple and safe, i am in fact working on a video lecture on this approach, to be posted in Metacafe video site soon!! Kin Lian what is your view...

REX
rex@humbleideas.com; November 03, 2008 5:28 PM
Anonymous said...: I wish to comment on the post that compared my situation of buying Single Insurance Premiums to those case of Lehman investments. The writer alluded that i am a fool to be happy with just 3.2% interest and implicated that lehman investors should also be happy by similar comparison (meaning both myself and Lehman investors are fools).

Actually it is totally different. I put in $30K and i get back principal plus extra 3.2%. Lehman investors lost even their Principal, dont talk about interest.

I did not lose any money, and I am happy, but it is impossible for Lehman investors to be happy. There are others who put money in FD and get only 1.2%.
Even though the 3.2% interest is "non-guarantee", there is still a guarantee interest about 2%. From experience, i always enjoy the high limit interest payout. It is very fair because when you commit to SPP, everything is very clear in black and white, very easy to understand even for Ah Peks. Single Premium Policy is not the same as the Lehman SDs. SPPs are so safe that they are considered as FDs.

IT is true that a fool and his money are soon parted, but au contraire, after 5 years I get back the principal plus interest. Yes sir, i am one happy fool indeed.

REX
rex@humbleideas.com; November 03, 2008 7:09 PM
Anonymous said...: Hi Rex,
I also said that if your objective is purchasing power preservation then this product suits you. you must be aware that inflation is 3.5-4% over the long term and this product at best hedges it or you may even lose a little bit.
But if you looking for growth in real term equities are well known as good a inflation hedge and wealth accumulator.
I guess you don't need growth so this product is just nice for you.

FA; November 03, 2008 8:46 PM
Anonymous said...: Rex,
did the agent or the senior financial consultant conduct a need analysis with you? or he just pushed the product to you? It might be a wrong product.
To justify selling you the product your senior consultant must ensure that it meets your needs otherwise he or she would be breaching the FAA.
I ask because ntuc agents aka consultants are famously known for product pushing; November 03, 2008 10:06 PM
Anonymous said...: No, those who lost money in the lehman brothers saga are not fools but victims of an elaborate scam. Only you qualify, because you lost on opportunity cost to earn much more. If you say that the Chinese Yuan can go down means you do not know what is happening outside your foxhole. I suspect you are either a fool or an insurance salesman trying to promote Single premiums policies and try to take us as fools. If lehman brothers can go bust what makes you think your puny insurance company cannot. Many people do not know that the market capitalisation of one of these giants can easily be more than the market capitalisation of Singapore's entire business community. Yet they talk like they are experts and say that it is pure happiness to have a non-guaranteed 3.2% return for the opportunity of losing the rights to your money for 5 years. Do you know it is entirely possible that in 5 years time your money is worth nothing? If in 4 years time you realise that your money is not going to be worth much, like e.g Zimbawague, Iceland, Hungary etc, you cannot even withdraw it since you are locked on for 5 full years. You can only watch (happily) that your money is going to be worthless even for toilet paper usage since paper currencies are full of germs!; November 03, 2008 10:17 PM
Anonymous said...: Thanks FA. I am quite wary about the argument that Inflation is high so we must look for growth higher than inflation. Isn't this the same line of argument RM's use to con people to buy Lehman bonds? I heard it so many times. Inflation affects mostly luxury items, basic necessities for masses will always be affordable for the average salaried middle class citizen.

The fact is that we cannot die if inflation is 3%. But we can die if we plonk big part of our money in worthless Lehman bonds which promise to beat inflation...

With a SinglePremium Policy "fix deposit", you sit back and relax and watch it grow. The interest rate is no doubt lower than share market gains in a normal market. But the normal market just crashed and you have to wait at least 5 years for it to pick up i think. By that time i would have collected my capital back plus 3.2% interest of the Single Premium Policies. I am quite confident that the policies will pay out the higher calculated projection of the interest, but even if not, the rate will be better than normal FD. Can't find anything better than this in the market leh.

REX; November 03, 2008 10:37 PM
Anonymous said...: I would like to comment on the posting date 10:17 and 10:06. Actually i need to make it clear once again, I know there is nothing to say that the issuer of the Single Premium Policy can go bust. Indeed even POSB, DBS, OCBC, UOB can go bust, so why save at all in banks... But the point i am making is, SPP gives capital guarantee, in the same way as an FD in OCBC etc. If this is still not good enough, then one can only hide the excess money under one's bed.

I am not an insurance salesman. I am an ordinary worker fortunate to have a little bit of excess cash which i am highly unlikely to use in the next 5 years, and i want a safe way to put the money, and i believe Single Premium Policies are the safest thing with up to 3.2% interest and capital guaranteed.
Could someone convince me where else i can put the excess money if SPP is bad and i am foolish? Not Forex and shares and structured products... too risky for forex and too stressful for shares.

REX
rex@humbleideas.com; November 03, 2008 10:51 PM
Anonymous said...: I learnt my lesson on not trusting insurance companies and agents when my policies suffer cuts in the bonus rates during the asian crisis, sars, 911 etc .. I have come to realise that my contracts with the insurance company is one sided (heads they win, tails I lose). They lure me into the contract with their rosy illustrations; verbal claims by the agents that xxx insurance is well established and always pay according to projections; and then to cut the bonus rates at the slightest excuse. I am bound to my side of the obligation to pay premiums faithfully while the insurance company can reduce the bonus and reduce the maturity value. When I confronted them, they make me realize projections are projections -- they never promise me anything more than the guaranteed numbers in the contract. I then realise what a fool I was!

I am stuck and everytime the premiums are due I struggle if I should carry on paying and hope that they will pay me decent returns on maturity (case of TKK?) or I terminate with loss and with little hope to find replacement insurance cover. Now there is also a risk that insurance companies can fail.

From then on I never trusted any product sold always asking myself "what is the catch?" My unit trust portfolio is minimal, no structured product for me, no more policies based on "projections", no more policies with whatever fancy names, only policies with guaranteed returns. I do not even believe in those shield plans.; November 03, 2008 11:37 PM
Anonymous said...: let's define what is a 'fool'

we have professor who lost money in minibond. is he/she a fool?

we have medical doctor(s) who lost money in minibond and HN5, are they fools?

we have some folks we place their money with insurers, where the fund is protected under life insurance act, & earns higher than FD(historically) returns,and it is guaranteed under this legislation, someone called him a fool... is he or is he not?

we have some anoynymus who says others are fools, while he/she remains as anoynymus, and may be too proud to take advise, and went astray and loose money. he/she is NO FOOL!!!; November 04, 2008 12:28 AM
Anonymous said...: ntuc is no different from the rest. Not surprising that it is. NTUC is cooperative in name only. So consumers shouldn't mistake it for the ntuc when Mr. Tan KL was in charge.From the management ,to the products to the agents they are all money face. Consumer should stay away from the agents who masquerade as financial consultants lest you get fleeced and dumped with their expensive products. Never expected that these agents have become greedy and conscienceless. Indeed money can change monks into monkeys . Just give them the keys to your bank account.

jay; November 04, 2008 12:52 AM
Anonymous said...: I thought it is ridiculous to be getting a 5% return per annum upside for a 100% loss which we have just seen in Lehman. But Rex takes the cake for a non-guaranteed 3.2% maximum upside in return for a possible 100% loss, happily some more. LOL

How does one describe such a stubborn person, somemore want somemore free advice... ROL; November 04, 2008 1:11 AM
Anonymous said...: MAS should investigate ntuc top agents for malpractices. MAS should visit their roadshows to get evidence
of mis-selling and misrepresentation.
The management is keeping 2 eyes closed to these practices and indirectly encouraging them with toxic packaging of revosave and vivolife to get more sales. This is cheating the public. Policyholders who bought this package must go for review by a third party to check for mis-selling.Re[port to MAS .

splim; November 04, 2008 7:22 PM
zhummmeng said...: Anonymous 11.37PM,
you must have been fooled into buying a wholelife product that it is causing you a lot of pain and distress.It shows that this dumb product is not working as what the greedy agent claimed . You are at the mercy of the insurer. They can do whatever they like to your policy, cut and cut and cut becuase the benefit illustration is only a projection. They are not bound by that. MAS already stated that don't judge the merits of the products sold by the greedy salesmen and unscrupulous insurer.MAS believes in hands off approach and advocates a disclosure based regime,ie you buy at your risk, caveat emptor.
You will only be bashing your head against the wall and nobody will ever hear you, MAS the regulator or spectator or the FI.
What you can do is chop it off to stop the pain.
Now if your policy is recent and you are still young it is better to terminate your policy. I know you will lose some money but holding on is sure to guarantee more losses. WL is a scam product. Its return is miserable and your protection is low. I don't how much insurance you have. Rule of thumb, if you are married with 2 young kids now you probably need at least $600K for dependents' income, 5 times of your annual salary for dread disease cover and 70% of your income for disability income protection. These protections are very necessary to give you peace of mind. Consider canceling your WL policy and buy these recommended products with the premium you are paying now. I believe you don't have these covers because the agent short changed you by selling you a WL to earn a high commission. Consider it a blessing in disguise that you now see risk management in better perspective.
Well, what am I advising you?
yes , I am advising that you use the BTITR strategy and stretch your money to reap the maximum benefits. This is financial planning looking at the big picture of your financial needs.
Get one competent and honest adviser to be your financial coach.
Be careful of insurance salesmen in disguise. Nowadays these former insurance agents come masquerading with all sort of titles, from senior or executive financial consultants to wealth planners and many others.Another important thing to note is if you see name card with fanciful logos like mdrt,cot or tot , run as fast and avoid them like leeches. They are blood suckers. They have already sucked many people and that is why they were awarded with those marks . These despicable people don't need to do any need analysis or fact finding and they already know you need wholelife plans or endowment or regular ILPs.They either sell one of these plans or all of them. They are so good that they can see your needs straight away from afar or even before they see you.
The good news is their days are numbered when MAS is forced to enforce section 27 of the FAA and drive them out of the market into the fish market and that is where they belong.They are good at product pushing and the fish market is the right place for them, don't you think so.
Good luck to you. Luck is still important because you suay suay get one product pusher with alot of these titles.; November 04, 2008 9:25 PM
Unknown said...: Thanks zhummmeng

The agent made it to the mdrt some years after I bought the policies. The company (i) proudly announced and assured policy holders that we are being served by an accomplished, ethical professional who is considered to be among the best in the world.

My experience with company (ii) is better. The WL policy broke even by the 9th year and premiums are lower for the same protection even though it was bought later.

I wish I can share the names but I do not kno the implications.

It is sad that one has to learn this way. At least now there is this platform, thanks to Mr Tan, to share and learn from each other, especially for the younger working adults who have not yet commit themselves too deeply in these.; November 05, 2008 12:34 AM
zhummmeng said...: 1137,
I know which company you are referring to.The company with the best product pushers and touted as the super dupers in the trade.
You were duped into buying a rubbish product.This product helped contribute to the agent production to qualify for mdrt.
i hope you have learned a lesson not to deal with former salesmen or agents who disguised themselves with titles which definitely don't fit them. The titles misrepresent them. It is cheating the consumers that they are qualified financial consultants when they are at the worst insurance salesmen.. They can't even operate a financial calculator how could they call themselves financial consultants. Some even have senior or executive prefix before the title. MAS mustn't allow this, this is misrepresentation to the public.
I hope you stay clear of them.; November 05, 2008 1:51 PM
Anonymous said...: Hi Mr. Tan,

firstly, I applaud your efforts to fight for those who are disadvantaged by their lack of financial education. Like you, I feel that measures that are way, way overdue must be taken to prevent RMs and Insurance agents from pushing products mercilessly in the name of hitting revenue targets. You can never have the clients' interests at heart when it's your own pocket you are working for.

However, I have to ask whether you thought so strongly about this issue when you were CEO of NTUC Income. I am sure that you instilled targets for your company's frontline staff to achieve their respective revenue targets. NTUC's products must be distributed after all. Those products, though probably cheaper than those of AIA, Prudential, etc in the market, were no doubt, also structured ones like whole life plans, endowment and investment linked insurance plans. My question is: Why did you not instill a culture within NTUC Income of educating customers to buy term and invest the rest? Countless research has proven that buying term and investing the rest comes with much more benefits than the purchasing endowment and investment linked plans. I assume that you knew about this when you were CEO of NTUC Income. Why is it that the agents were not instilled with the mission to educate customers of the better option?

My final question is: Assuming that you did know that buying term and investing the rest was the better option, why did you not campaign for it in NTUC Income the way you are doing at Hong Lim right now?

A puzzled Singaporean.; November 05, 2008 10:49 PM
Anonymous said...: I guess it is like some of the former RMs who came out to speak against the banks they once worked for.These were the ones who quit because they couldn't tahan the unethical practices and the product pushing they were forced to use that resulted in mis -selling
While it is easier for these people to quit but not easy for MR. Tan KL. In fact during his tenor he tried ways and means to give better value for the consumers, eg, by extra bonus,by reducing the greedy agents' commission to pass it to the consumers to improve the return and other low cost products to help the agents to sell.And it turned out the agents didn't need low cost products to sell they already had the good skils of product pushing if given enough incentives like more commission they could be the super dupers.
However , as you know these greedy agents stop working. This proves that these greedy agents NEVER had the interest of the consumers at heart. They only would work if there was high commission. But Mr. Tan was adamant to reward the consumers only to the unhappiness of the agents and so production dropped.
Then came the new ceo who saw how to play the game with these greedy agents..So he played to the pockets of the agents and ..... More incentives, no commission cut, co cost sharing, new rubbish products for pushing and of course the sale shot up.The agents call them motivations.. indeed motivation at the expense of the consumers.When the enthusiasm spent, no new tricks, sale declined but not plummet but it will soon.
Mr. Tan KL 's product legacy is in the low cost ILPs, the i-term the most affordable in the market and others which were removed because they were good old fashion that gave value for money but not fashionable for the hip customers who are willing to pay more premium for hip products. I leave the rest to your imaginations. Soon MAS will come down hard on them. Mis selling and misrepresentation is so rampant and accepted as THE WAY to msdrt, cor tot.All MAS need to do is pick at random a top agent and that is representative of this group.MAS is sleeping. It is time they take a walk around the malls, the mrt, the side walks and in the air they can get wisp of mis-selling....

a recent EX; November 06, 2008 1:40 AM
Anonymous said...: NTUC agents are product pushers and they don't care whether your needs are met or not.Those with ntuc products should go for a review with another adviser but qualified and honest for help. It is not surprised that you bought a lot of toxic . It is better to discover them now then later. Why is it so? Simple,in product selling or pushing agents have no intention of your interest at heart , they have only the commission.I am sure many of you have experienced this. The ntuc agents would start with one expensive product first and if you show no interest for the product the agents would talk about another product and to another hoping that one of these products would arouse your interest.What you are interested may not be the correct one, that is why need analysis is important.
This is rubbish salesmen's tactics .And to misrepresent themselves they have fierce titles like senior or excecutive financial consultants. They shamelessly wear those titles.None of them is fit to be called by these titles.
So be careful when you deal with them . And nowadays the new products are rip off and very poor in value compared to the old products. If you have an old one compare the protection , the return and the premium with new ones and you will see they are very bad products.
Open your eyes and ears ntuc and the agents are no longer what you used to think. They have become commercialised and they think of nothing but profit and commission.

sad cindy; November 06, 2008 12:56 PM
Anonymous said...: Every Sunday, I read about the wealthy and successful Singaporeans boasting about their Insurance Policies and Investment appetite and I ask myself with the current global financial meltdown and Creit squeeze and how reliable and secured are Insurance companies are? I now put GOD as my insurer! In GOD I TRUST!!!
It is a magical world of now you see and now you don't. So conclusion NO GUARANTEE of what you expect!

Happy go Lucky - Joe; November 06, 2008 6:11 PM
adego said...: joe, since u trust in God, do u lock the door before u sleep? God will take care of u, u don't have to lock the door, right?

since u happily go lucky, u will not suffer any illness and will not die young. right?

unfortunately, I have seen many who trusted God, suffered from illness and died young. some are my friends... but they exercise personal responsibilities & covered with insurance.
hope u are lucky and still happy; November 07, 2008 1:47 AM
Anonymous said...: Ntuc Income was down graded to minus by S&P because of loss in their investment.
The other insurance companies remain
unchanged.
The annual bonus cut proves to be unwise as ntuc has more money to lose. Next year will be a testing year.Wonder any protest will be staged at the AGM.This time the board
must be grilled properly; November 07, 2008 8:52 PM
Anonymous said...: adego,
do u trust ntuc income after they cut your bonus and gambled it away.
they may cut again next year because they have little to pay. it will come a day when they they say no more annual bonus. trust us to give bigger special bonus. we will try our luck to give you the biggest, bigger than waht Mr. Tan KL gave. Trust me . I promise no more fanciful chairs and expensive trips for the agents.We sav ea bd give it to u, Mr. Adego

Ogeda; November 07, 2008 10:25 PM
Anonymous said...: I heard revosave is a bad product. i was conned. the return is very low.
Can some one explain before i cancel.
If it is a bad , must tell the public
before they become victim.; November 09, 2008 9:35 PM
Anonymous said...: return the product and ask for refund. or lodge with mas or case..
those who bought this product take another look by another advsier to check for mis selling and unethical practice; November 11, 2008 10:44 AM
Anonymous said...: people who bought revosave were DEFINITELY mis-sold and mis represented. Cannot run away.If properly disclosed and advised no person in the right mind would buy revosave. It is so stupid to pay for so much and so long for a miserable return less than fixed Deposit.
The agents unethically misrepresented the product to the customers.
Those who bought should report to the company for full refund or report to MAS.; November 11, 2008 5:04 PM
Anonymous said...: complain them to CASE and sue the agents. ntuc agent are very unprofessional. They have tiltles that don't fit them. It is just like calling toilet cleaners, taxi or bus drivers, receptionists and clerks financial consultants. Look at them and you know what i mean.They were once known as business development officers, it is alright.They can develop whatever business it is still business. But calling themselves financial consultants is too much. They don't know how to use a calculator , what consultant? MAS must stop people from misusing titles. They will misrepresent to the public. Why don't they call themselves chartered financial consultants or investment analysts or chartered insurance consultants?
This is deceiving the public.; November 12, 2008 2:17 PM

Sunday, November 02, 2008

NTUC Income is different today

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