Tan Kin Lian's Blog: Taking a free ride

Tuesday, September 15, 2009

Taking a free ride

Some Singaporeans have the habit of taking a free ride. They are not prepared to join the class action now. If the class action succeed, they want to join later. But this is not possible.

When the investor groups were being formed a few months ago, they did not register or join the groups. They wanted to wait to get compensation from the bank or FIDREC. When FIDREC rejected their case, they approached me for the contact persons for these groups. It is too late.

If Singaporeans want to have a just and fair society, they cannot sit back and ask for help at the last moment. They cannot take a free ride.

They have to act early and join others in a collective action. This bad character of some (perhaps many) Singaporeans have to change, if we are to be a strong nation.

Tan Kin Lian

37 comments:

Anonymous said...: My 2 cents:
Initial cost of class action was about $5K, not all can afford after incurring losses with their minibond
Then they fell into the 2nd trap of trusting the government/MAS approach, thinking it will lead them to compensation
Many has since lost their trust after this fiasco, not just of FI. Many do not trust lawyers, thinking they may be coming in to make their money
We end up with people who distrust everyone, very negative and disillusioned with their life ahead; September 15, 2009 11:17 AM
A Tan said...: In case of MIAG, may not be too late.

They are backing 5 people who are suing. So MIAG may still be open to late comers BUT at a higher cost.; September 15, 2009 11:21 AM
Anonymous said...: I supposed these group are EDUCATED people. They just want the best of both world. I am not being cruel, but i think they deserved to loss their money.; September 15, 2009 11:36 AM
Jezebella said...: I believe this is the consequence of a pampered nanny state... People tend to become reliant and let others help out first before they would do anything.

I once read a report about a lack of rain shelters and people are complaining about that. They appeared to have forgotten about the existence of umbrellas, and are simply sitting back to wait for help.; September 15, 2009 12:09 PM
Anonymous said...: MIAG is still open for investors to join for class action, and enquiries are streaming in
after the court action came out in the news.; September 15, 2009 12:48 PM
Anonymous said...: I share the view of Mr Tan. Even after excluding those who accepted compensation from FI, there are at least a few thousand minibond investors left uncompensated, and yet only 165 investors taking legal action. What are the rest doing? Waiting for money to drop from the sky?; September 15, 2009 1:01 PM
Anonymous said...: Everyone is waiting for everyone else to step up. At least the 165 who took action has initiatives.; September 15, 2009 1:09 PM
Anonymous said...: Singaporeans want the best option available.
Its a perspective that they have aquired from
living here.
Unwilling to take a position until its too late.
An old saying in teochew:

"... procrastinate to buy toilet paper, then when motion is in progress, look for paper.."

Similar to a frog in pot of water that is slowly
heating.. till it boils.
Greed. greedy to have the most options, greedy to have the best... greed to materialistic pursuits.
Empty hearts and materialistic minds.

Ask a Singaporean to spend S$8000 to upgrade his skill and he will say its too expensive, and questions if there is any guarantee of a job after that.
Ask him to spend S$8000 as deposit to buy a car, and he'll jump in with both eyes closed! Nevermind if there is a guarantee of cheaper fuel or ERP..
I support your view Mr Tan... they should not be allowed to join in.; September 15, 2009 1:37 PM
Anonymous said...: I also lost money through Mini Bond.

I went for the meeting on the class action and was told I have to fork out $2,000 (first) for the lawyer to 'study' the case. We were not given any details or what so ever because the lawyer claimed that he cannot review his strategy. (Doesn't it sound like another case of put in the money first without knowing what we are getting into?) With Lechman Bro's lesson fresh in our mind, who still dare to commit without knowing what we are getting in return? To most of us, this is a BIGGER RISK than buying Mini Bond!

Most of us there were concern that we might even loss more money. On top of that, the legal fee was a flat rate - meaning that not matter what amount you have invested in Mini Bond (whether be it $10,000 or $500,000), the legal fee is the shared equally.

Ok. if we win - say the bank suppose to pay back us 50% of our invested amount, will all who join the class action agree to the amount or do they want to appeal? There might be some disagreement in this aspect. At the end, we, the small investors might even fork our more money than what we get back.

What if we lost? Then we not only have to pay for our own legal fee but also the bank's legal fee!!! This might amount to thousands of dollars for each person!!! Again the small investors are at the disadvantage!

So, at the end, those who invested less than $50,000 try their luck with FIDREC.

So don't criticize saying 'they want the best of both worlds' or 'sitting back waiting for help'. The fact is - WE JUST CAN'T AFFORD TO LOSS MORE THAN WE DID.

Those who say all those things are people who are not affected by this saga OR selfish people who invested more than $50,000 (FIDREC is unable to help) who want more people to join class action to share their legal fee!!!; September 15, 2009 2:42 PM
Anonymous said...: Those investors, esp those who bought minibonds
from brokerages, could contact MIAG lawyers
Conrad Campos & Company for details about joining in the class action. Fidrec could not
help this class of investors, even if you are
not English-educated or are over 65 yaers of age.; September 15, 2009 2:47 PM
Anonymous said...: As far as I know, MIAG is still open for any minibond investors to join them. I guess they understand their fund limitation thus started off a class suit against RBS with 5 big investors backing. This week is the last for RBS, Minibond & LB to reply them on their class suit.

Imagine my shock when it was reported that the reference entities are only worth $1 originally [MB2]. FAs from Phillip Securities have been promoting MB such that reference entities are safe bonds from 6 strong companies.

If this can happen to FAs in Phillip Securities who were trained by Lehman Brothers in the MAS report, what is the chances that the rest of the FAs from the other FIs sold MB based on this mis-understanding?

So how does MAS classified this? Ignorance, misled by Lehman Brothers, poor training? At present now, it is the MB investors who are shouldering all the lost due to FIs inadequate due diligence. When ask to face up to their responsibilities, FIs insist MB investors signed on the application knowing fully the risk.

Isn't this the job of Regulator to ensure fairplay and high standard of conduct in carrying out Financial Advise duty?

MAS just stand aside and call it a day. Sad day for people who believe so much about integrity and honesty of the financial industry.; September 15, 2009 2:49 PM
Anonymous said...: The entire mechanism from MAS right up to the govt failed but they chose to look away from the problems. Lets us make history to show the world our system is not the way it seem to be.We failed as a financial hub !; September 15, 2009 3:32 PM
Anonymous said...: """She appealed, her case went to Fidrec's panel of adjudicators, and she got her $60,000 back two weeks later - minus $500 in earned interest."""

It seems that it is effective to appeal, esp for FTs. Why not appeal? You may get back somethings??; September 15, 2009 3:35 PM
Anonymous said...: I find the more educated ones are more calculating. I myself can be considered as educated. No only they want the best of the 2 worlds, they also want to be included as the first litigant so that they can take the money first if they win. They also want TKL's free advices eg QC report etc. Do not forget we are fighting against 10 FI's. If we cannot give and take ourselves, we deserve to be eaten up by the FI's.; September 15, 2009 3:43 PM
Anonymous said...: 2.42pm - Please note the legal fee for MIAG is not a flat rate. Quite the contrary, investors for less than $ 100,000 are heavily subsidized by high end investors.; September 15, 2009 3:52 PM
Anonymous said...: 3.52 - That was what we were told during the meeting @ Raffles Hospital. This was clarified and confirmed at that point of time.

It seems that the information of 'not a flat fee' was not pass down to all investors.....

Many would have (by now) accepted the FI's partital compansation or go through FIDREC. It is too late for them right?; September 15, 2009 4:45 PM
Anonymous said...: Not many cases were successful at FIDREC, the case publicised in Sunday Times was probably a vulnerable case " Chinese speaking Study MAMA". The rest who were not successful were probably misled by FIDREC officials that they stood a chance hence they were reluctant to join class action. Now they appear as though they want a free ride, this group actually quite poor thing, first misled by FI, then misled by MAS/FIDREC. So now they desparate and appear as though they want free ride.....; September 15, 2009 5:04 PM
Anonymous said...: This is the problem about our legal system. Belongs to the rich. Small people can afford lawyers. In order to correct this, we must allow lawyer to be entitled to a share of the amount awarded.; September 15, 2009 5:06 PM
Anonymous said...: Unlike US ,Law Society in Singapore does not allow contingency fee (legal fee as a percent of compensation) or ambulance chaser.; September 15, 2009 5:44 PM
Anonymous said...: Don't count on Fidrec adjudication. You will regret when you hear the Judgement read out to you starting with: "So & So is a xx year old educated to xxx level and invested in shares etc." so as to justify why they dismiss your case. As if a person who buy shares understand all about these complex structured products that even Alan Greespan said he find complicated.; September 15, 2009 6:00 PM
Anonymous said...: Fidrec is awarding more after formation of class action groups. Ask around what was the compensation 3-4 months ago compared with now.Is Fidrec really that independant? Higher compensation is partly due to Class Action.; September 15, 2009 6:11 PM
Anonymous said...: This sad saga is an eyes opener to many people, including many strong supporters in the past decades.; September 15, 2009 6:27 PM
Anonymous said...: FIDReC is a wanyang show. Especially adjudicator Mr Adrian Soon is a smiling tiger.; September 15, 2009 7:04 PM
Anonymous said...: As far as I am concern, just go along with the wayang. Once you accepted your lost, things become clear. I paid $50 they paid $500. I sit down with 5 people for 2 hours and hear me screwed the FI. I don't care whether it is wayang or Adrian a smiling tiger, as long as I have my satisfaction from nothing, it is good enough for me.; September 15, 2009 7:51 PM
Anonymous said...: Remember there was a report that the LB (spore) has some assets, so we could sue the company. But the catch was you must registered you action before 30 June 09??
At that time some said cannot sue LB Spore becasue of some reasons.
But now MIAG is suing LB spore. Does it means that those who join now cannot take part in sueig LB spore, thus cannot claim the asset owned by LB spore, even if we won the case?? Then that is not fair.; September 15, 2009 8:35 PM
Anonymous said...: I don't know about you but I got back 3x more than what the FI first proposed to compansate me through FIDRec - Mr Adrian Soon.; September 15, 2009 8:43 PM
Anonymous said...: MAS know the FIs are at fault but what can they do? If they force them, the FIs might just declare bankcrupt and close down. It will not only affect the economy but more people will suffer at the end.

So MAS rather take a by-stander attitude. If the FI compansate then it's good; if not then just too bad.

Don't get me wrong. I am also a Mini Bond investor who did not get back my capital. I am also angry but if we see things in the bigger picture, then we will know why MAS is doing all these.

Call it unfair or whatever you want. You want to show your dissatisfaction??? Then do it during the next election. Don't complain now but later when it's time to have your say, you back out!; September 15, 2009 9:02 PM
Anonymous said...: Hi 8:43, You must be the rare lucky one. The highest compensation % among my group of friends is 60% given by Adrian Soon. Only 20% of us were compensated.
9:02, don't be too naive. The total compensation amount is peanut to any FI. It will never cause them to go bankrupt. Also do not put your hope that we can change much of the next GE results because the ruling party will come out with many funny (dirty) tactics such as re-draw GRC boundaries, increase candidate registration fee ridiculously, give angboa to elderly citizens etc etc to their favour.; September 15, 2009 10:28 PM
Anonymous said...: 9.02pm is being naive that FI's will go bankrupt if asked to pay compensation. Brokering houses are like gambling house. You make , they make also. You lose, they make also.; September 15, 2009 11:09 PM
Anonymous said...: To me, the lawyer being engaged should take up such class action case as an opportunity for themselves to make a name in the industry. Imagine the huge fame and a stream of endless cases line for them if they can win such a landmark case. Hence, the lawyers engaged shouldn't receive any fees from the credit linked notes victims. This is what some lawyers do in these type of cases in the US.; September 16, 2009 1:35 AM
Anonymous said...: post 2.42pm account was also what i have experienced. there was also no disclosure on what would be the minimum settlement sought and the criteria used to select the targeted FI. u have to leave everything to the committee so i agreed with post 2.42pm that many smaller investors dropped out. also the winners of the suit would leave 10% of the take behind and then off they go rather than share all winning with the rest of the investors that fund the suit. understand that there are now changes to all the arrangements but not sure what they were.; September 16, 2009 6:18 AM
Anonymous said...: """understand that there are now changes to all the arrangements but not sure what they were."""

Where and how to find out more??
Can't afford to just keep lossing money.
Can we still eligible to take action against Lehman Brother spore now if we have not registered earlier. This is an important point to clear also.; September 16, 2009 6:59 AM
Anonymous said...: 1.35am mentioned Lawyers should not charge any fees instead make use of this opportunity to promote their names. What will happen if they lose the case. Who will pay the foreign financial/legal expert opinion , party to party cost, court fee, filing fees etc.; September 16, 2009 7:45 AM
Anonymous said...: I agree with Sep 15, 2.42 pm. My sentiments exactly. It doesn't make sense for us to cough up more legal fees if we are small investors (< $50k), like the cliche says - no point 'throwing good money over bad money'.

After this incident, I have lost confidence in MAS and our govt. Will be voting for the opposition or spoiling the vote if I am eligible to vote in the next election!; September 16, 2009 12:43 PM
Anonymous said...: 12.43pm Different people join class action have different aims. I know one small investor (only $10,000) join class action not only he believes in justice, justice must be seen to be done. He was offered 20% by the FI's which he refused. Legal action will help the raise the financial standard in Singapore.; September 17, 2009 8:12 AM
Anonymous said...: 8.12am That is if this small investor willing to risk losing out more than the $10,000 he/she has invested to pay for justice.

Is all the risks involved conveyed to the people taking up class action?

Hope those who willing to take this RISK would not be once again disappointed.; September 17, 2009 10:18 AM
Anonymous said...: There is no law to state we cannot sue LB Singapore if we did not register earlier. My layman interpretation is that in order to claim money from bankrucy, one has to prove fraud, mis-selling or mis-interpretaion etc. If not, noteholder just like shareholder of a company, will be ranked last in the claiming. If in doubt, please consult lawyers. Incidentally, not all lawyers are familiar with the process.; September 19, 2009 7:58 PM

Tuesday, September 15, 2009

Taking a free ride

37 comments:

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