Recently, I found that the subordinate court had written clear instructions in their website on how to get a letter of administration (where there is no will) or a probate (where there is a will). The legal fees of $5,000 seemed to be excessive for the paperwork of getting a court order.
I wonder if the lawyer had overcharged my friend? Do you know of other lawyers who are willing to apply for the probate or letter of administration for a more modest fee?
Tan Kin Lian
17 comments:
The process to apply for Grant of Probate or Letters Of Administration is intellectually simple --- an experienced law clerk can do the steps, but is tedious and time consuming. Most lawyers can also submit the initial required documents online from their office PCs and also get his clerk to perform the High Court & Sub Courts caveat searches online, and to do the leg work going to various service counters in the courts and Chinatown Point when necessary.
The overview of the steps can be found here:-
http://app.subcourts.gov.sg/subcourts/page.aspx?pageid=4425
The detailed instructions, forms and formats are found in the Sub-Cts Practice Directions:-
http://app.subcourts.gov.sg/subcourts/page.aspx?pageid=4433
Unfortunately most people won't be able to follow thru on their own as it's very time consuming & tedious. Lawyers know this and charge accordingly --- they also hedge against the case becoming complex e.g. ownership issues of the assets, disputes by family members and beneficiaries etc.
I think most people will need to set aside savings or insurance payout to pay for such expenses, and also not forgetting funeral expenses too.
I wish some kind folks will put some Singapore law portal in the internet for people to use.
In today worlds, online portals have removed many jobs such as insurance (insurance direct), property (property guru), trading of stocks and futures, pharmacy etc and etc bypassing middleman and low value add services like lawyer stamps and letters..
Hi Spur,
The tedious work does not need to be done by a lawyer who charge high fees. It can be done by a knowledgeable person, like you, who can charge half of the fee of the lawyer. How about doing this as a business? You can offer it under FISCA. Send an email to kinlian@gmail.com, if you are keen to explore this idea.
There's no need for a lawyer in intestate case (no will). Just appoint someone as legal representative to do representation to OA. I myself have handled two such cases, for my mother (at my father's death) and for my aunt (at my uncle's death). The process would take 4 to 6 months and a few trips to OA, court and other departments concerned, cost a few hundred dollars, but certainly not S$5,000.
I think the best way is to educate people to write a will at modest cost of a few hundreds $. This solve the problem for most people. The cost of time is different for everyone depending on your profession so if it is tedious and time consuming, what cost you think is reasonable to charge?
I paid about $3k to administer my late father's estate. Indeed there's quite a bundle of paperwork and documents to submit and signed, plus a few visits to a Commissioner of Oath. Not something a layman can follow thru unless you have a lot of free time.
Actually the legal fee is the least to worry about as it is almost insignificant compared to the size of the estate. There is nothing stopping the family from charging the legal fees to the estate.
The real cost isn't the legal fee. The true cost is when the family is unable to decide who shall be the Administrator because of the need of other eligible Administrators to renounce their rights to be one. Nobody will be so silly to renounce their rights to be Administrator. But of course, in Singapore most people are financially illiterate to begin with and thus will not have any idea the implication of renouncing their rights to be Administrator.
Other non-legal fees incur will be when two surties have to be found because of large estate or when there are minors. Again, never ever be a surety but as usual in Singapore most people are financially illiterate and does not know the implication of it.
$5,000 is definitely excessive. 3 years ago I paid $2,500 for probate work.
We always think that matters that deal with law or courts are too complicated for a layman to understand. Thus we are at the mercy of lawyers, so to speak.
Does having a will solve or fasten the process? If so, perhaps, having a will written may be a wise decision.
Having a will merely means that you expressed in black & white how you want your assets to be distributed / protected after you're gone. Contrast with having no will and dying intestate, where your assets will then be distributed according to the law as spelled out in the Intestate Succession Act.
To execute your will, the named executor(s) in your will still need to go thru the process to obtain the Grant Of Probate. So if your executors are unable to afford the time & effort, they still need to pay a few thousand dollars to get a lawyer.
I have helped with some of my relatives, but quite standard cases e.g. simple property like HDB or condo, bank accounts, brokerage accounts. No businesses with various business partners, multiple properties with tenancy-in-common with many owners etc. Usual money spent if DIY is a few hundred dollars, mostly in stamp duties.
Btw, you still need to pay conveyancing fees and stamp duty to transfer ownership of condo or HDB (if allowed) e.g. to the children. For private property it is another few thousand. For HDB it is $100++.
Hi all
Just want to thank u guys for helping me save some money. I was quoted 3.5k to do a probate grant n it excludes additional costs like disbursement. I thought it was the norm til o read this post. So i did a search n found another law firm going it for 1.8k! Even with additional costs of 500, its still cheaper than previously quoted. Anyway, I'll kept u guys posted.
Hi Miss Chua,
I was also quoted 3.5K to do the grant of probate for my dad who passed on last week. I would appreciate if you could share your personal comments on the service and work done by the law firm you engaged which quoted 1.8K. As dad's will is specifically for the HDB flat, I thought that 3.5K is rather high. Thank you.
U can do a search on the internet to compare prices. The law firm i engaged is good enough to do the job. The final bill is about 2.3k after all the disbursement n fees.
Hi Chris
The law firm has just notified me that the application is completed. The final bill comes out to be 2.3k. I am pretty satisfied with the service n price. Like i say just do a quick search on the internet to compare the prices.
Hi Chris
My grant of probate has just been issued. The final bill works out to be under 2.3k.
You can do a search for the law firms over the internet to compare the prices.
Hi Ms Chua,
My dad had passed on last week and we need to get a Letter of Administration for his matters. We have been quoted from 3k & above.
We appreciate if you can share the law firm that you had seeked advice from.
Thank you.
Regards
Cynthia
We actually walked and called a few law firms asking for quotes and found one that charges a basic of 1.8k. We applied for their services on 18th May and it took them 7 months, inclusive of the period we had to make arrangements to sign the documents. Most of the law firms in Chinatown charges over 3k. It's best if you just call the law firms to ask for quotes. The final bill for our case turns out to be below 2.4k. No will in our case, so we applied for Grant for Letters of Administration.
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