Tan Kin Lian's Blog: Be careful if you wish to redeem your credit linked notes

Saturday, November 15, 2008

Be careful if you wish to redeem your credit linked notes

Dear Mr Tan.

I brought $X pinacles note 15. I have complained to F1 for mispresentation , but received a negative reply.

Thinking of putting the all matter behind because I have seen little actions done postively, I decided to cut loss.

I went to direct to the bank. They give me the email price of 84.75% as pricing today at 2pm. Beside I have an sms from business manager with the same pricing. I signed the forms and they do not allow me to put the pricing. They give me the assurance that there will be little changes to it.

In the evening,they called and tell me nicely they have sold it at 76.76 % as a bad news. No explanation are given , they only sympathise with me.

Yes, the only alternative to complain again or sue. I wonder what the banker have become? I getting very tired.

Please be very careful if anyone wish to made redemptions. Dun trust banker 's words anymore. Make sure the pricing are written black and white.

JP

REPLY
A unit trust also adopt the same practice - they given an indicative price and calculate the actual price at the close of the market. The is called "forward pricing"

But tjhere is a big difference. The forward pricing adopted by the unit trust is based on the actual closing price of the underlying shares. It is possible to audit the forward price to be a fair price.

In the case of the forward pricing of the credit-linked notes, there is no such transparent process. We do not know how the bank calculate the forward price to redeem the contract. If there is a drop of 8%, it could be profit of the bank that bought the credit linked note from the investor. If so, this will be grossly unfair.

I suggest that the investor should make a written complaint to the bank and ask to receive a written explanation. You can bring the case to FIDREC.

18 comments:

Anonymous said...: Totally one-sided and very unfair.
What the world has become. Really unimaginable.
We are always at the mercy of others ...... very sad.; November 15, 2008 6:56 AM
Anonymous said...: Seriously? You got cheated by the bank the first time, and then you allowed this same bank to fill in the pricing for you? Why didn't you demand that the bank confirm the price in black and white?; November 15, 2008 7:01 AM
Anonymous said...: this is normal practice also for unit trust. they give you indicative price only and u take whatever they give u later.

u are lucky that you can still cut losses as for many series, it is only 2 to 5%, how to cut lossess?; November 15, 2008 7:19 AM
Anonymous said...: "Be careful if you wish to redeem your credit linked notes

Dear Mr Tan.

I brought $X pinacles note 15. I have complained to F1 for mispresentation , but received a negative reply.

Thinking of putting the all matter behind because I have seen little actions done postively, I decided to cut loss.

I went to direct to the bank. They give me the email price of 84.75% as pricing today at 2pm. Beside I have an sms from business manager with the same pricing. I signed the forms and they do not allow me to put the pricing. They give me the assurance that there will be little changes to it.

In the evening,they called and tell me nicely they have sold it at 76.76 % as a bad news. No explanation are given , they only sympathise with me.

Yes, the only alternative to complain again or sue. I wonder what the banker have become? I getting very tired.

Please be very careful if anyone wish to made redemptions. Dun trust banker 's words anymore. Make sure the pricing are written black and white.

JP"

Thanks for the notice.

I am sure you should realize by now you would NOT have been able to achieve 84.75%, heck even 76.76 %, had you insisted to put EVERYTHING in black and white.

Think about it, no not that, but the very implication the moment you said "I decided to cut your loss."; November 15, 2008 8:30 AM
Anonymous said...: This just confirm one cannot trust bank anymore.

You should complaint based on your email and sms to get the difference. Don't let these bullies push us around; November 15, 2008 9:07 AM
Anonymous said...: Although I don't invest in anything, I feel the heartpain and sadden for those who are greatly affected. It's their hardearned money afterall. Worse is that they had been misled, and thus cheated of their money.

I can only pray for them and hope Heaven will help them out in time of crisis and need.

At times, I wonder if protest is good for the people so that our voices and anguish can be heard. But I don't mean the violent kind where protestors are hurt and injured.

Nevertheless, I hope all is well for you guys in the end. Take care and good luck.

Sincerely and warmest regards.; November 15, 2008 1:51 PM
Anonymous said...: If this is like unit trusts, then there is no way they can know the final price when you sell. Why would they let you fill in the final price when they don't even know it. All the price that you see are indicative prices. Please do not miseducate people further.

Kin Lian you need to decide which are educational posts and which are mis-educating posts.; November 15, 2008 2:13 PM
Anonymous said...: Maybe that 8% is commission?

Ch; November 15, 2008 3:02 PM
Anonymous said...: why would there be 8% commission to redeem those notes? Commission for notes is only upfront during inception, not when you area redeeming.

The 84.75% is indicative, and the banker is right to say that there are definitely changes to the prices.

It is time people stop crying wolf and think of ways to give banks a bad name when they themselves are the one who listen selectively.; November 15, 2008 3:26 PM
Anonymous said...: I cut my losses for DBS HN3 in September. They gave me an indicative price and I instructed them not to sell below that price. You have to sign a form indicating your sale and you can choose the indicative price as the lowest price you are prepared to sell at.; November 15, 2008 4:46 PM
Anonymous said...: Once you gave them the money, it is theirs. We hv totally loss ocntrol.
It is the tacit understanding that we would be treated fairly that we trust them. Now the tacit understanding is broken.
It is a dangerous world now.
Every thing u do must be eye wide open. But open yr eyes also no use. They are 1,00000000000000000000000000000000more powerful.
there is nothing we cld do.; November 15, 2008 4:53 PM
Anonymous said...: Now I understand why my FI would not reply to my email asking for a price, just call and tell me and that's it.; November 15, 2008 6:18 PM
Anonymous said...: pls. if you pple think that the bank purposely took the 8%, then you are a really uneducated bunch of craps who should just put your money under your bed.

for unit trusts and structured products, the pricing is all indicative. of course you can't indicate the pricing on the redemption form. you sound just like one of those ridiculous clients who also think they can just cross out/alter any clause of the banks' home loan contracts as they like. HA. HA. HA.; November 15, 2008 6:42 PM
Anonymous said...: When I redeemed my High Notes, I wanted to know how they arrived at the indicative price. After a lot of calls, they finally got a young officer to call me to explain. It was so convoluted that I just couldn't understand. I told the officer the indicative value was quite arbitrarily done and he just laughed. We are just at their mercy.; November 15, 2008 6:51 PM
Tan Kin Lian said...: 7:19 AM said that unit trust also adopt the same practice - they given an indicative price and calculate the actual price at the close of the market. The is call "forward pricing"

But 7:19 AM is not aware about a big difference. The forward pricing adopted by the unit trust is based on the actual closing price of the underlying shares. It is possible to audit the forward price to be a fair price.

In the case of the forward pricing of the credit-linked notes, there is no such transparent process. We do not know how the bank calculate the forward price to redeem the contract. If there is a drop of 8%, it could be profit of the bank that bought the credit linked note from the investor.

It is grossly unfair.

I suggest that the investor should make a written complaint to the bank and ask to receive a written explanation. You can bring the case to FIDREC.; November 15, 2008 8:24 PM
Anonymous said...: "We are just at their mercy."

Enough said.; November 15, 2008 11:36 PM
Anonymous said...: Kin Lian,the question is whether the product is daily priced, weekly priced or monthly priced. FYI, drop of 8% if weekly or monthly priced is highly probabable in current market conditions.; November 16, 2008 1:06 AM
Anonymous said...: You can complain and insist on having them write the price down in black and white for all you want. They would just smile at you and say "no, sorry we can't!" If you ask for the Bank Manager, you may get lucky and see him showing up in two hours and you would be told exactly the same thing, with his usual cunning smile. If you turn violence, you go to jail. Than the Bank would look peaceful again.; November 16, 2008 9:35 AM