Tan Kin Lian's Blog: SCMP: Angry investors protest

Saturday, October 25, 2008

SCMP: Angry investors protest

http://www.pressdisplay.com/pressdisplay/showlink.aspx?bookmarkid=DNB3L2CAL132&linkid=b7a97cb4-e18d-4fe7-a5c8-f27afb0432d2&pdaffid=8HM4kDzWViwfc7AqkYlqIQ%3d%3d

SCMP:Angry investors protest
25 Oct 2008
Peter So

About 100 desperate investors who bought retail structured notes and equity-linked notes from local banks linked to the bankrupt US investment bank Lehman Brothers protested to the Hong Kong Monetary Authority and the Securities and Futures Commission yesterday morning.

They said the authorities had only paid attention to the victims of Lehman-linked minibonds but ignored those who bought other structured products. Minibonds are not corporate bonds but consist of high-risk creditlinked derivatives.

The protesters included customers of Citic Ka Wah Bank, Chong Hing Bank, DBS Bank, Citibank, Standard Chartered Bank, ABN Amro, Royal Bank of Scotland and Dai Sang Bank.
They said the banks had deceived them into putting their life savings into the high-risk investment products and urged the banks to make full repayments. DBS said it would notify clients yesterday of the value of their structured products linked to Lehman, and would compensate the customers for losses if mis-selling was found.

But protester Wong Kam-chuen, who invested more than HK$2 million in the bank’s retail structured notes, said he had heard nothing from DBS.

“The bank staff couldn’t tell me when the investigation [into alleged mis-selling] will finish. I really have no idea of when I can have my money back,” said Mr Wong.

15 comments:

Anonymous said...: Even if I am a young educated person who had bought the funds knowing all the facts and risks at that time, I would still claim now that the banks had mis-sold the products to me in order to recoup my entire investment now if possible.

Everybody is now claiming to have been mis-sold the products, and there is not a single person now who has the guts to admit that they were greedy for the 5% interest compared to the 1% interest if they were to continue with their the fixed deposit.; October 25, 2008 10:39 AM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous 10.39 am, ask yourself a question - will u risk everything for an additional ~3% interest? If your answer is NO, do u think the others will?

Pls dont discredit people without understanding the whole facts.; October 25, 2008 12:30 PM
Anonymous said...: 10.39am,
you mean you understood those products and you were educated enough to dig deep into the product to discover the CDOs and CDS. You understood CDOs and CDS and they were buried below those seemingly harmless reference entities. You got all the facts of financial engineering and you went in with eyes open and felt that the 5% coupon met your risk appetite and satisfaction?
Did you know that these products were not approved for CPFIS? Why? if they were low risk and lower than the riskiest product approved for CPFIS why they are not among the CPF approved products. Does this tell you something??????
Don't talk for the sake of it or you are just showing your ignorance.
Disgusted with those who pretend to know.; October 25, 2008 12:46 PM
Anonymous said...: The ugly side of capitalism. Now you know why there are sympathisers to the real socialism of equality for all.; October 25, 2008 12:59 PM
Anonymous said...: Don't think it is fair to say that they were greedy...if 5% is all they get compared ( at the time to 20 -30% in equities ) it couldn't have been greed. They were naive yes to expect a free lunch and to believe that the enhanced yield promised could be as safe as FDs. They were tricked into believing that they were investing in a portfolio of investment grade bonds when it was a bunch of credit derivatives propped up by a sole credit default swap party.; October 25, 2008 1:15 PM
Anonymous said...: Anonymous said...

Even if I am a young educated person who had bought the funds knowing all the facts and risks at that time, I would still claim now that the banks had mis-sold the products to me in order to recoup my entire investment now if possible.

Everybody is now claiming to have been mis-sold the products, and there is not a single person now who has the guts to admit that they were greedy for the 5% interest compared to the 1% interest if they were to continue with their the fixed deposit.

10:39 AM

BRILLIANT

this is why the banks would NEVER accede to a full compensation package

they couldnt tell whos the Toms, Dicks and Harrys. yes they know there are on BOTH sides - seller and buyer, BUT they just dont want to be accountable for those on the buyer side

AND they don want to waste their time and energy to find out whos who, so they drew a simple line, 62 and practically uneducated. i mean whats the use of the compensation to these bunch of people, think about it. in medical circumstances, organs would be priory first disseminated to the young and living.

the rest whatever action, meetings, proposals, releases, investigations, reports, processes, proceeding, interviews, talks, seminars, submission, schemes, policy, adjustments, terminations, penalties, reviews, feedback, changes, customer service are all *censored*; October 25, 2008 1:23 PM
Anonymous said...: Dear 10:39AM,

Greedy is a very bad word to use. I hope you, as a human, can be more emphatical at this point in time. Does it mean that people who put money into FD is greedy compared to people who keep them in normal savings? I am almost 100% sure that you are speaking without even the slightest understanding of what the whole issue is. Pick up a minibond prospectus and start reading it and tell me honestly how many people you think can understand it. And by the way, didn't an old lady admit on national tv that she bought because of a little "greed"? Your statement is factually INCORRECT. Go do your research before commenting again.; October 25, 2008 2:27 PM
Anonymous said...: The whole purpose of "meetings, proposals, releases, investigations, reports, processes, proceeding, interviews, talks, seminars, submission, schemes, policy, adjustments, terminations, penalties, reviews, feedback, changes, customer service" etc is just BUSY WORK and part of game theory in which the FIs are experts. The banks are NOT working busily for their depositors!!! They are buying time for themsleves.

With the principle of 'divide and rule' eventually, FIs hope that depositors would end up grabbing air in their hands.

Those who are unaffected by the mis-selling apparently enjoy playing the judge. Like hollow men
'etherised' at the table of life, they think "if I don't feel the pain, there is no pain, only mental capacities at work". When it's time for their pain to be felt, let's hope their intellect will allow them to stoically endure the pain and claim full control of the circumstances that led to their misfortune.

Let them go to the dentist and say "I deserve this toothache because I asked for it." And let the others say "I do not feel the pain so there's nothing wrong with you".

Snideliners and judgemental observers stay away!!!; October 25, 2008 3:07 PM
Anonymous said...: #10.39am,

They were not greedy. The investment were put across to them as being similar to a FD except with higher interest. They had been misled.

Returns must be in line with risk. To tie up your money for 5.5 years for a return of 5%.p.a., that itself suggested a very low risk investment and furthermore they were being misled by the RM who assured them that it is safe and backed by the govt-linked bank.; October 25, 2008 5:03 PM
Anonymous said...: 10.39am, have your head examine by doctor please before giving your silly comment!; October 25, 2008 9:15 PM
Anonymous said...: Let's take a hospital for example.

If a doctor in a hospital prescribed a fake medicine (b'cos the hospital gives him higher commission), shouldn't the hospital be responsible?

Let's bring it further.

Suppose the doctor has no medical license, not supposed to see patients. Actually the "doctor" was previously a cleaner. But the hospital hired him anyway. Cos the hospital is unable hire real doctors for the job. Real doctors may cost more salary, or they may be reluctant to do the bidding of the hospital (knowing full well that the fake medicine can cause ppl to die). Shouldn't the hospital be doubly responsible?; October 25, 2008 9:28 PM
Monsoon said...: Very sad that the officials, the banks think that the investors went into minibonds because of greed when the returns are not much more than the safe FD. The banks have actively persuaded many people, they tried with me and I know it is not easy to push them away because most of us are polite and trust the banks when they say it is safe to buy those minibonds.

There are also sadly, some bystanders who without due consideration are so ready to believe the official and bank version when it should be obvious how people has been persuaded into buying minibonds and other groslly unfair financial and insurance products which no one can practically understand and can only buy based on trust and the advice of their RM.

It is more easy to blame to unwary investors who have no power, it is easier and safer to believe the government and the banks who are ready to sue if you say the wrong thing against them. We are just lucky to have Mr Tan to help these investors, otherwise who do you think will stand up for them?; October 25, 2008 10:00 PM
Anonymous said...: I had pesonnally encountered when I was with my 80 years old dad in the Premier club, cosy envirnonment to do his renewed FDs. First I think the entired marketing method were infringe of depositors secrecy.
1. How can the people handing clients depositors signal another marketing ladies to approach the old man for new products? better yields?
2. They normally target single with opposite sex 'liang cai or liang mui' to persue them to change to mini bond investment while the FDs were in process of renewing.
3. I sat and drank my coffee and wondered how can banker-CEO set up such a tactic to lure and sweet talk rich old people. and i agreed with the author, the etire marketing approach is conning old people. Wondering these marketing people use Toxicated perfume to attract old man-ladies...you know some kind of Phoxxxx-perfume....
4. For 20 years as i attended AGMs of Many banking PLCs in this region , I had discovered a very serious issues, Whenever you ask a serious investor questions of such , they would answer you ' Banking acts, we cannot disclose further details'. This Blank cheque had given the bank CEO to cheat. Surely, CEO were given a task and incentives to growth turnover as when you are Public listed, you need figures. I guess such circumstances had lead to the world financial collapse. A bank Must keep secret and private of client's FD.
5. Another day, a sexy lady call home and told that she would deliver a set of gift and diary to oldman. We wonder, how can banker use depositors FD address and visit clients in such mode. We withdrew the million $ FD the next day from another bank.
6. The entire banking industries should be re-trained and plant the most important OBJECTIVE- Private and secrecy. NEVER NEVER allow bank to promote any more structured products. The banking hall, clubs should be allowed to only managed client $, not passing the investment return risks to depositors and fool the under educated entire saving.
7. WHo's heart won't moved with sexy legged and smell good liang Moi? what's wrong if ah Kong with millions behave a bit hamsap..hamsap.. Only if your dad informed you what he had done with his $. Many just keep quiet with their millions...; October 26, 2008 6:13 AM
Anonymous said...: ..contd..

After few months, and research, I told my dad to sold off OXXC which he kept for since 1969..cost RM 30,000 and before the bonus issue for a whopping XXXK S$.
We had then decided to withdrew all his mini-structure bonds from FD and pulled out $ to invest in real estate.

We sold down all our banking stock investment, leaving few odd lots .

A year later, this moment, the crisis struck ashore.
I said, anything investment that reaches the peak, you must let go. For every cash you hold now, soon you may buy back 3 times qty more. Every cycle, you trible your wealth.

But then who do you trust to have such good return.

Stay united and trust as family members. My dad invest on my education , come the times, we must be alert and smarter to preserve our wealth.

As a country, the leaders must stay united with their people. The old people had contributed to the society whether they were dish-washer, street sweepers or recycle-or-paper collectors or Mee Goreng sellers. Their few hundred thousands means a lot to them. Money comes and go easily. Faith and trust never easy to come by.

For the next 100 years no one trust American bankers anymore. If you read French President and his reactions, he knows how deep and consequences of all the Bastard American financial leaders-regulators had done to harm the world. Never Again.

But you know how the Media shifted the attention? They never never said anything of their wrong Doing. WTF!; October 26, 2008 6:32 AM
Anonymous said...: @9.28-Friend.
in the first place, Hospital should not allow to offer commission. But many pharmacy approach Doctors first. in this case L.bros link man approach the CEO first. Then they work out a plan for his swissBank account.
He would get a handsome kickback. The CEO then work out a plan for his board of DIrectors how new products can enhanced Group turnover and attract more Depositors. He also planned his 2nd incentives, ie..Bonus for successful launch of series of new products...In the mean time the Linked man told the US fund managers to pump money to this regions and shoot up all the share markets...in order for such product-TOXIC-One to move across the entire region. it was a five years plan. CEO works hard for years and later he resigned and told te world he missied his family in USA. before the tsunami strucked, he also got early retirement benefit.
DO you know who are those bunch of link men.? I happened to heard the scheme years back.

Hospital is given a license to trade with money. The people got money trust the govt cos they issued the license to make people trust them. The only problems were, those in charge of the banks were too old, and they hired smart-Oversea-trained CEOs to run and pop up the turn over. cos they are too old to handle.and the share they owes from generation to generation had to be maintained cos they are now Publicly listed.
Surely, the Hospital board must be responsible. They can always counter check. But CEOs were given big power and those who did not toe the lines get fired (whom i know of a good friend) those supported the ideals get promoted and huge incentives. He got framed for a mistake. THe message were never got into the Old board members...you know office politics.
In some uncorruptable society, there are many high level, covered up corruption whcih many top gun were never know.
As smart investor, you must have many friends, Good, bad, urgly, as you gather all the stories and judge them correctly, you survive. but many would clsified you as STUPID when the economic boommmm.

Luckily nowsaday we got BLOGs invened by American to check sum error on the con-Job by the AMERICAN bankers.

Then banks must be blame. THey can counter sue L.Bros , ALlen GreenSPan or even the US Govt.

But the patient should be allowed to go back for free treatment if the fall ill-serious sick when the fake medicine is the main source of making the patient sick-- FOR FREE. After all, the deserves to have another look at the sexy legged-NURSES...he he; October 26, 2008 8:02 AM

Saturday, October 25, 2008

SCMP: Angry investors protest

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