Tan Kin Lian's Blog: No compensation from ABN AMRO

Friday, October 24, 2008

No compensation from ABN AMRO

Dear Mr Tan,
My mother and I are joint account holders for minibond series 2 from ABN AMRO. My mum is 68 years old, attended only a few years of schooling, does not read or write English, stayed in a 4 room HDB flat that is more than 25 years old, and has been a frugal housewife all her life. Two years old, my mother's fixed deposit of S$170,000 matured and she put the entire amount of her hard-earned savings into the minibond series 2, thinking that she was investing in a safe bond as explained by the RM.

My mother clearly falls into the vulnerable investor group as described by MAS, and such risky product should never have been recommended to her. In fact, the RM did not even carry out a Financial Needs Analysis on my mother. When I asked for her profile report, the bank replied that they only need to do one profile. I told them that it is ridiculous for a bank and a gross negligent on the bank's part to assume that my risk profile and my mother's risk profile are the same.

This morning I just received a call from ABN AMRO that there will be no compensation for our minibond investment. I was so shocked to hear that since local FIs are already making the right steps to compensate the vulnerable investors. My mother was clearly a vulnerable investor sold on a product totally not suitable for her. The bank officer on the phone could not give a reason why there was no compensation, but only to say that the decision was made by a committee. After demanding to meet the committee, the officer came back to say that the bank will review the case again and get back to me.

I would like to caution other investors that some banks will try to get away with the compensation if they can. Do not give up, fight for what is rightfully ours.

Isabel Tan

25 comments:

Unknown said...: After demanding to meet the committee, the officer came back to say that the bank will review the case again and get back to me.

Typically how they play the game. If you are in the position to demand, they will concede. If not, they will just bully and squeeze you all they can.; October 24, 2008 4:13 PM
freeier said...: Whichever bank it is, there might still be basis for you to look at the case.

check all documents, check all kind of correspondences with the bank. etc.
if they had simply sold it to your mum without your signature, then you also can put it as a point to complain to the authority.

think hard on your part on anything that you can use to support your points.; October 24, 2008 4:41 PM
Anonymous said...: Maybank adviser inform that Minibonds could not be placed in joint names ? that's y my mum's funds all under my name .... so it can be joint ? Anyone knows about this ?; October 24, 2008 4:45 PM
Anonymous said...: You can buy minibonds jointly. I bought it with my wife.; October 24, 2008 4:53 PM
tulipfashion said...: To salary ,
Are you Isabel Tan ?
Do you mind give me a call ,cos I'm the volunteer for ANB Amro invetor group Felicia .(92967379); October 24, 2008 4:56 PM
Anonymous said...: i think this is just the tip of the iceberg, just the beginning of the end

or is it already over, just that common folks are plainly refusing to see thats its already over the moment they hold over their signatures; October 24, 2008 6:49 PM
Anonymous said...: To Tulipfashion,
It's good you are taking the leadership role for ABN Investor group.

But, focus on doing what reaching out to investors who do not know how to use internet.

Those people who know how to use internet and can even post commments in here complaining about their mum's lost but have not contacted you ... uh...and yet have to wait for leaders like you to request them to join. RIDICUOSLY.

I think these people should be left to their own devices. If they can't be proactive on their own investment losses... why should you care for them.; October 24, 2008 6:57 PM
Anonymous said...: I thought only one name can be on the account as the minibond has to be deposited in a cdp account.; October 24, 2008 8:09 PM
Anonymous said...: It is heartening to see that there are volunteers to help others to fight for justice. I suggest that all the volunteers should have the contact numbers placed in Mr. Tan KL's blog so that distressed investors can contact them and help each other. All the best Felicia.; October 24, 2008 8:20 PM
Anonymous said...: I would like to clarify that I did send emails to the volunteers in charge of the ABN AMRO group prior to posting my comment but did not receive any replies.

Anyway, my sincere thanks to all of them for their kind help.

Isabel Tan; October 24, 2008 9:47 PM
Anonymous said...: If you were there with your mum when you sign up for minibond, then I think the bank does not classify her as vulnerable investor since you were there to assist and explain to her.

If the bank does not compensate and think you have no case,then they must have thought they have done no wrong and is confident that they will win even if it goes to fidrec and court.; October 24, 2008 9:58 PM
Unknown said...: Dear Anonymous at 8.09pm.

You can have joint names even for a cdp account. So the minibonds can be registered under joint names, as this is what I did.

Concerned Investor; October 24, 2008 11:20 PM
Anonymous said...: yup, if they did a risk profiling on you and not your mum, you are likely to have been classified as the main a/c holder and your mum, joint a/c holder. usually, a senior citizen would not be able to purchase such products under his/her sole name. banks will try to bring in a younger co-applicant.; October 24, 2008 11:23 PM
tulipfashion said...: Hi all,
I already recieved a reply from Miss Tan this afternoon . If anyone who want to know more details about her case you may call me as I already got her permission to share the details with other investors .; October 25, 2008 12:34 AM
Anonymous said...: Angmo in Suit passby, 'pui pui' and curse them. American cannot be trusted anymore. They toxicated the entire banking system; October 25, 2008 5:18 AM
Anonymous said...: MAS should demand all banks to declare the actual amount Publicly, and freeze the bank asset in the event banks deny any compensation.
Moreover, making it PUBLIC will ensure the AMERICAN con-bankers realised how deep their creative financial packaged as said by allen Greespan years ago, had hurt many OLD-THRIFTY and needy people that had trusted the Marketing Ladies in the FD department.
I had once scolded the manager in Premier club, HOW can bank be so agreesive marketing the financial package? I asked got big commissions? they smile. indeed, everylevel in the bank had some kind of incentives that made them go all out and cheat old depositors. MASshould declares new set of rules.
I had then adviced my dad to withdraw 10x series in OCBC and we spend it one one row of shop lots , now he happily collecting rental.
I pity those and prey God that American financial cheaters to be PUNISHED.
Bring the matter to US in 15th NOV, will you, MINISTERs?; October 25, 2008 5:37 AM
Anonymous said...: Insurance companies always like to tell us some heartwarming stories abt some widow who benefit from their whole life policies, in order to sell their products. Let's use the same tactics back on them. Do a video interview of your granny's real life heartbreak story of being conned by ABN. Then distribute to international media.; October 25, 2008 11:19 AM
bsd said...: i am greatly sadden by the losses sufered by the hgh notes investors. i understand that the sale of high notes products was a highly profitable business for the bank. the product is doubly leveraged - the first-to-default risk and the underlying collaterialsed debt obligation.

even in late 2006 and early 2007 where credit risk is severely underpriced, the return for the risk undertaken that is passed to the high note investors borders on ridiculous. the bank keeps a fat margin.

Mr Tan, i would suggest high note investors ask the bank to oepn its book on the structuring profit for high notes products.

even if the bank refuses to compensate the 'non-vulnerable' investors, the bank should not be allowed to make money from them.

it also seem that the bank is not so truthful when they said that they were caught unaware by the collapse of lehman brothers. i understand that bank had bought CDS protection to hedge the bank's own exposure to lehman, and have avoided trading with lehman to reduce counterparty exposure as early as march 2008

i know this would drag DBS profit and shares price down further, but my guilt does not allow me to keep quiet.; October 25, 2008 12:32 PM
Anonymous said...: agreed, and Yahoo. You tube it. Let's call it, the financial Tsunami hits ashore...Let's video it and You tube it.; October 26, 2008 5:40 AM
Anonymous said...: Let's give some Jobs to our many soon to be retrenched cyber technologists; October 26, 2008 5:41 AM
Anonymous said...: MediaCorp should do a few different segments based on truth interviews of the victims and en-act it like what they did in Crime Watch. Each affected investors has a story behind him / her. Also, one segment for those whose investment has not yet matured. I fall under this category. In this way people have a better understanding and a clearer picture as the saying "picture speaks a thousand words"; October 26, 2008 10:59 PM
Anonymous said...: I watch a document about china fast food ' hong Kow Lian' vs MacDOnalds. After few years, HKL collapsed and MacD still running.
MAS should hire all the TOP brand, Top analyst and DO a FULL INVESTIGATIONs on howL. BROS set up such CREATIVE Packages and instruments and lured in Billions from SGP, HK and many parts of this world. Learning from this and document it for NOV 15th Meeting and throw it BUSH and trade secretary, perhaps a copy should be drop to Allen Greespan.
AFter the overhaul, SGP can emerge a new systems and work with CHina,HK and derive a new tools, rules and packages to turn SGP a truly , solid and honest financial centre of the world. I am sure LSL had a visions, unless some of his gangs are pro-US or benefit from somethings which we and many are blind and cut off from knowing. Even shareholders' questions are not answered. Aren't there so many BANKING Acts.secrecy acts that enables banks to hide many secret deals among bankers...WTF; October 27, 2008 4:45 PM
Anonymous said...: Hi Rachel,

I sympathise with your mom's plight.
However, I would like tt know whether the Bank has been paying her the quarterly interest that she's supposed to receive for the past 2 yrs?? Your mum must have been delighted to receive a cheque every 3 months form the bank, right???
Was your Mom been forced at gunpoint to sign up for the Structured Notes or unit trusts or any kind of financial products by the financial consultant??

IF YOUR MOM IS AS POOR AS YOU'VE DESCRIBED, HOW COME SHE GOT $170K TO INVEST?????? COME ON!
HOW COME MY 75-YR-OLD MOM AND 82-YR-OLD AUNT WERE NOT "CONNED" BY THE BANK PEOPLE WHENEVER THEY GO TO THE BANK TO WITHDRAW MONEY??

EVERYONE NOW IS LOSING MONEY IN THE STOCK MARKET BIG TIME!

SO PLEASE DON;T COW-PEH & COW BU!!!
BE GOOD LOSERS, DON'T BE SORE INVESTORS!!; October 27, 2008 5:19 PM
Anonymous said...: One reason why the investment is held in your name ( and not your mom's ) is that she does not have a CDP account. Do you remember if this was the answer given by the RM when you wanted the investment to be in joint names?; October 28, 2008 5:08 PM
Anonymous said...: If your mum's investment was earning money, would you return the money and claim it was undeserving due to her vunerability as an elder??? I'm sure you wont..... so why are you raking up all this bullsh*t about your mum being scammed

Where's your integrity as an investor? It is the investor's responsibility to know the risk of the investment and if your mum is that LOW educated, wouldn't than be YOUR responsibility to safeguard her interest as her daughter? Do you need people now to take care of your own mum?

The main thing Singapore should do now is really to BAN elderly from making any form of investments... Imagine all the elder decide to heavily invest and than claim insanity or stupidity when they lose money, banks will have to close down; November 17, 2008 1:49 PM