Tan Kin Lian's Blog: Stress at FIDREC hearngs

Tuesday, December 22, 2009

Stress at FIDREC hearngs

Dear Mr Tan,

Thanks for your kind assistance and I managed to get back some compensation from the FI finally.

Nevertheless, for most of the victims like myself who had gone thru the hearings, we have to transfer our "Bonds" to the FIs and not entitled to anymore residual value. I questioned the fairness of this system, as the residual value may end up be higher than the compensation ? (so far I know all compensations are below 50%) We are not given any other options. If we do not accept the award, we have to engaged our own lawyer to fight with the giants. Many want to end this nightmare after more than a year and are forced to accept this "compensation".

Unlike HK, FIs will still refund the victims and not gain anything if the residual values are higher than the 60%-70% that had already been compensated.

In addition, I understand many cases are still pending at Fidrec, due to disputes between the IFAs & FIs. The MAS/ Fidrec has yet to settle whom should be liable for this saga, and the victims have to decide by themselves whom they want to go against .... again, is this FAIR ? If one choose to go against 2 parties, they were told to pay 2 times and have to go through 2 hearings (that means 2 times the stress!) Furthermore, Minibonds have to wait till the residual values are confirmed before able to proceed hearings with IFAs and FIs. Currently, only those bought directly with the Banks are allowed to proceed with the hearings. (Not sure why ?)

Recently, Fidrec has tried to conduct mediation with some IFAs, these are all wasting of time, as results is "we are only introducers". Yet, many are forced to attend, else, may not be able to proceed with the hearings.

I wonder why we victims have to shoulder all these stress ? We are just laymen and do not know what are the hidden "agreements" between these business partners. After more than a year, MAS/ Fidrec has to be firmed with the directions and make clear whom should we go after, rather than leave everything to the victims.

I really feel sad for the whole financial system here in Singapore .............. how to become a Financial Hub with this kind of unfair system in place ?

Many Pinnacle Notes are going bust soon ... would advice other victims to be strong, since no one able to help us.

24 comments:

Anonymous said...: I think you misunderstood how the system works. the FI simply buys back a portion of your minibonds, and you keep the rest. Therefore, the residual value of the bonds that you keep will be yours to keep. You have nothing to lose by settling with the FI, except of course the right to sue it.; December 22, 2009 4:47 PM
Anonymous said...: ""I think you misunderstood how the system works. the FI simply buys back a portion of your minibonds, and you keep the rest. Therefore, the residual value of the bonds that you keep will be yours to keep.""

Buy back means buy back.
How to buy back a portion????
Are you sure you are right???; December 22, 2009 5:47 PM
Anonymous said...: JL- You seem to suggest your compensation is similar to Hong Kong's formulae which I do not think so. Please read 4:47pm explanation.; December 22, 2009 7:17 PM
Anonymous said...: IFAs means FAs who are only qualifed to be Introducers????

IFAs means FAs who only want to be Introducers???

IFAs means idle FAs who are too lazy to do the work of FAs, yet still want to earn the commissions???

IFAs means FAs who only able to "execute orders"?????

IFAs means FAs who dare not even give any advice to clients????

IFAs means FAs who dare not even make any recommendation to clients???; December 22, 2009 8:22 PM
Anonymous said...: I completed my adjudication process and is similar to 4:47 pm.

Mine is MB Notes
================
example

i) FI/bank bought a portion of my notes at original price minus away the interest I received.

ii) I retained the reminder Notes.

e.g. If FI/Bank compensate 30% of a $10,000 investment and the interest received is $500 then it should be below:

Bank/FI paid = $3,000 - $500
= $2,500 for $3,000 worth of Notes.

investor keep $7,000 worth of notes.

If the liquidation is 50%, then the investor will get back $3,500 and the bank/FI $2,500.

In the end, the investor will get back $3,000 + $3,500 = $6,500 [including the interest collected]. He lost $3,500 of his $10,000 investment.....; December 22, 2009 8:33 PM
Anonymous said...: 8.33pm Bank/FI should get back $1,500 (not $2,500 as mentioned by you, $ 2,500 is what the bank/FI compensated you). Incidentally, do not expect too much residual values as PWC has compromised note holders' interest.; December 22, 2009 9:08 PM
Anonymous said...: I just had my settlement. Yeah agree with 8.33's calculation.

You only sell back a portion of the mini bond (say 40%) and you keep the remaining (60%). The bank will pay you that protion in full minus the interest you had received.

The remaining 60% will depend on the liquidation.; December 22, 2009 9:15 PM
Anonymous said...: Last time people used to have a lot of respect for IFAs.
Now after this saga, it is reverse. they are quite useless because they dare not giive any advice.
Last time.....
Now we also know they are also so helpless.; December 22, 2009 10:08 PM
Anonymous said...: Even if you cannot get back your money by going to FIDREC, it allows you a chance to give "lecture" to the FIs.

It allows you a chance to "scold" the adviser who sold you the xx.; December 22, 2009 10:15 PM
Anonymous said...: """If one choose to go against 2 parties, they were told to pay 2 times and have to go through 2 hearings""

So are they helping the victims????
or who are thy helping???; December 23, 2009 7:27 AM
Anonymous said...: There is another type of compenssation. The FI will compensate a lump sum without deducting the interest/coupon earned in the last and without surrendering whole or part of your notes.; December 23, 2009 10:58 AM
Anonymous said...: Yes. I heard of such compensation. Friend of mine given about 12% from FI and keep the notes and interest. The condition is he cannot sue the FI.

I think the FI bet that the notes will default and it is cheaper to give him the 12% instead of going to FIDREC. You call this honest or cunning?; December 23, 2009 1:59 PM
Anonymous said...: There are a few reasons why some FI's want to compensate a lump sum and allow you to keep the notes and the past interest:-

1 As mentioned by 1:59pm, they probably estimate the residual values are Not significant,

2 Fidrec claim test is only S$ 50,000 ,once they deduct the interest and keep the notes, the compensation is even less; December 23, 2009 6:41 PM
Anonymous said...: If there are so many ways of compensation, then the "residual value" of minibond should not be an issue.
But they say because the "residual value" of minibond cannot be determined, so those who bought via IFAs are not able to proceed.
This is not a valid reason, so what is the real reason???
People would feel uneasy if the "real reason" could not fully disclosed.; December 24, 2009 6:11 AM
Anonymous said...: I heard in earlier compensation agreement , the FI's not only deduct the interest of the notes surrendered to them, but also include interest of those portion of the notes kept by you. Do not be cheated by FI's the 2nd time!; December 24, 2009 11:25 AM
Anonymous said...: I called HSBC trustee service on the liquidation progress. As usual, no answer. Only it will take 2-12 months to settle.

For PNotes and MBNotes victims, if your FA or the FI indeed lied to you about the product being a bond and is super safe as the reference entities are strong and old companies, seek redress. Go and complain to FI then go FIDREC. Don't accept FI compensation as it is normally lower than FIDREC.

e.g. FI offered 20% to customer who bought MB because their trusted FA sent them a Note claiming notes is a bond and as safe as a FD.

I am sure this case will have more compensation from FIDREC. Whether FI is LFI, brokerage house or bank, it is the FIs responsibility to ensure their FAs are competent, properly trained and do not misrepresent the facts.

For our Notes case, I strongly believe LB and MS intentionally train FA wrongly and due to the greed of FIs, FIs ignored the LB/MS misrepresentation.

For us, had FIs do their due diligence properly, we will not be in this situation. We trusted them and depend on them on good advise for investment. The so call professionals are nothing more than a salesperson chasing after commission as both the FIs and the FAs do not read prospectus or pricing statement or should I say, they also don't understand.; December 24, 2009 11:49 AM
Anonymous said...: Reference the comment:
"I really feel sad for the whole financial system here in Singapore .............. how to become a Financial Hub with this kind of unfair system in place ?"

A Financial Hub's success or KPIs (Key Performance Indicators) is measured by how much profit is made by the Financial Institutions.

Some of the profit comes from making a profit from individuals.

The ability of individuals to make a profit (or not be cheated) from investments is not part of the KPI in determining the success of a Financial Hub.

When you are seated in a poker table. And you can't figure who is the sucker (the weakest player) ... it's probably yourself.

Just another "elephant in the room."

"Use your blain! Use your blain!" Phua Chu Kang.

Wake up Dorothy! You are not in Kansas anymore! (Wizard of Oz); December 24, 2009 12:23 PM
Anonymous said...: HK system is much better. It is transparent. People would forget their angers after some time.
In our process, the more we went thru, the longer it drag, the more times we read our cases over and over again, the more resentment we will get, the more angry we will become.
It is going to anger a lot of people, and such experiences would cast a deep memory in us.
In the end, it is a "loss-loss" situation. Everyone becomes the loser.; December 24, 2009 8:48 PM
Anonymous said...: At least you get back something. I already give up because I don't belong to vulnerable group and got no money to join class action suit. I want to ask those elite brains and MAS to go to hell ! You will be in hell in your next life for bullying your country man. Don't know who can help me ???; December 28, 2009 5:09 PM
Anonymous said...: 5:09PM- Why not take your case to Fidrec?; December 28, 2009 7:11 PM
Anonymous said...: I too have no money to join class action suit. I was rejected by my FI with a long list of reasons. That pissed me off as my FI put 100% of the responsibility on me. I held on to my rejection letter for a few months and decided to proceed with FIDREC. My FI refused to meet or mediate with my FIDREC case mgr. I paid and proceed to adjudication with the encouragement of my FIDREC case mgr. Then the MAS report came out on 07 July 09 which helps me in building my case. I don't belong to vulnerable group but I persist and build my case on FI bad due diligent. In the end, I succeeded and got back a acceptable compensation. I am helping others to fight in adjudication.

My advise: Why give up? This is what the FIs want you to do. Why fall into their trap? Go for it as more and more people are getting higher compensation. Even if you lost the case, you only pay $53 and FI paid $500.; December 28, 2009 11:30 PM
Anonymous said...: I lost in MBNotes. I was angry and TKL blog helps me to destress and also by reading other victims accounts, it gives me strength to move forward.

As long as you don't take action, swearing at MAS, govt, fellow country FA is totally useless as nothing is going to change. The best you can do is don't vote for them but that does not return you your investment.

I know of a PNotes retired victim who tirelessly went to MAS, FIs, FIDREC. Wrote letters to MAS, Ministers, MPs and finally the FIs agreed to meet the victim in adjudication. Mind you, her lost is total i.e. left with a couple of thousands with a sick parent to look after.

The victim did not give up. We encourage each other to move forward and take action. I know that at the end of the day, one must answer to oneself that he/she has tried their very best and if it comes to nothing, then be it. Go and file your complaint to FIDREC. You never know how it will end up.....; December 28, 2009 11:47 PM
Anonymous said...: Please be reminded the maximum claim limit in Fidrec is only $ 50,000 unless FI's are prepared to raise the limit. So far some FI's have raised the limit others still remain at $ 50,000.; December 29, 2009 10:31 AM
Anonymous said...: don't despair.
pay $50, go there and "scold" the FI(s) and the adviser that sell you the product, even if you can't get back your money.
FI have to pay $500 for lsitening to yr "scolding".; December 29, 2009 10:17 PM